1955 Hwt Title

I don't know whether he held or he didn't the British Hwt Title but if he did, then there definitely was a detailed match report and he sure had a photo of him with the original Lord Mount Evans Belt taken. That belt is seen on many Baldwin's pics.

You're right Ost and Bernard, sorry about that but February 5th was at Norwich.

Ruslan, there's little evidence for any wrestling events. I agree with The Ost that newspaper reports are the most reliable. Articles were controlled by the promoters and not always accurate - they told us what they wanted to know.

Baldwin vs Mancelli on Feb 5, 1955 was in Norwich. When looking at Hisa's listings (above) he uses the American format do Year/Month/Date. I can't find that result or billing but Hisa does use newspapers.

Personally I'll believe a newspaper report if there's more than one article on the same event. Unless you know the reporter was there. It was common for promoters to phone the results through to the newspaper, many times before the show had even finished.

The 1930's British newspaper clippings are good because the reporters seem to be present at the shows.

Sorry, my error, I believe that those fights were for the British Cruiserweight title.

Incidentally, I never saw Baldwin v Mancelli in a title match at Newcastle,

although I saw Ernie beat Tony a couple of times in non-title bouts.

The only times that I saw Mancelli in title matches at Newcastle was when he lost twice to Norman Walsh for the British Midheavyweight title.

Hack, just check your results.you said that on 5th Feb 1955 Baldwin wrestled Tony Mancelli for Heavyweight title at Newcastle.

Why do Ray's results show top of the bill to be Dave Armstrong 2-1 over John Yearsley?

No mention of Baldwin or Mancelli on that bill.

In those days, there was no internet. For instance,living in Newcastle ,I had no knowledge of results in places further South.

Likewise anyone living in say London, would have no knowledge of Northern results.

The promoters could put what they liked in programmes or on bills with not much chance of being found out.

That is why we had more than one champion at each weight for many years.

Anyone trying to found out how, what or why about championship changes, can never know the full truth.

Lies,and false claims, made at the time got perpetuated in historians records.

Just accept what you have got Ruslan.

I admire you and Ron for trying though!

I think there could have been many more title changes than we think.

It was nothing to a promoter to get a champ to drop a title for two weeks and win it back in a second match. It was just marketing.

It's not like it was real.

Title changes could also be used to cover injury or tours.

Basically, there's no credible evidences of this 'title change', which in this as well as any other case for me is a newspaper report. I stopped considering bills, ads, programmes they are a mess. Only solid evidence - an article.

Mancelli did defeat Baldwin on August 5th, 1954 in Wimbledon. But there are no notes to say if it was for a title or not.

I can't say whether these were the matches you are seeking Ruslan, but on 5th February, 1955 Mancelli wrestled Baldwin in a title match in Newcastle. There was another title match at Norwich on 2nd April. Assirati then neat Baldwin on October 19th.

Ernie Baldwin

1951/11/03

Middlesborough, ENG

Defeats Dave Armstrong in tournament final; also holds British Empire Title as of 53/03/05.

Alf Rawlings

1953/07/15?

Newcastle, ENG?

Ernie Baldwin [2]

1953/07/24<

Dai Sullivan

1953/08/19<

Ernie Baldwin [3]

1953/08/22?

Newcastle, ENG?

Or sometime between 53/08/19 and 53/08/31.

Tony Mancelli

1954/08/05

Wimbledon, London, ENG

Ernie Baldwin [4]

1954/09

Dai Sullivan [2]

1955

Leicester, ENG

Most likely in 55/02.

Ernie Baldwin [5]

1955/05/02

Middlesbrough, ENG

Tony Mancelli [2]

1955/09/09

Vacant in 55.

Bert Assirati

1955/10/19

Defeats Ernie Baldwin; recognized as European, British Empire, and British champion as of 57/05/17 and still holds all three titles as of 58/02/12; stripped in 58; continues to claim title and is recognized by British Wrestling Federation; stripped by BWF in 60 while recovering from injury.

Billy Joyce

1958/04/15

London, ENG

Defeats Gordon Nelson in tournament final.

Ernie Baldwin [6]

1959/11

Glasgow, SCT

Billy Joyce [2]

1959/12

Dennis Mitchell

1959/12

Billy Joyce [3]

1960/07/15

Bradford, ENG

Also wins European Title in 61; Shirley Crabtree wins a tournament for BWF version in 60.

Geoff Portz

1964/03/09

Bradford, ENG

Billy Joyce [4]

1964/09/26

Middlesbrough, ENG

Albert Wall

1966/01/20

Nottingham, ENG

Gwynn Davies

1966/02/17

Nottingham, ENG

Billy Joyce [5]

1966/03/17

Nottingham, ENG

Billy Robinson

1966/04/23

Manchester, ENG

Billy Joyce [6]

1966/05/14

Manchester, ENG

Ian Campbell

1966/06<

Perth, SCT

Billy Joyce [7]

1966/06/28

Edinburgh, SCT

Becomes the undisputed champion when Shirley Crabtree vacates the BWF version in 66 and no replacement is crowned.

Billy Robinson [2]

1967/01/23

Bradford, ENG

Or 67/01/18 in Manchester; vacant in 70/02 when Robinson leaves for North America.

Albert Wall [2]

1970/04/13

Nottingham, ENG

I found this , does it help at all ?

Noticeable that Joyce never defeated Wall.