I received one of these typewritten issues in the 50',s. I can't remember why, but it was mostly about Norman Walsh and his titles. I showed it to Norman and Flo and they said some of it was true and some not. Can't remember the details now.
Just as an FYI, Jim Craig lived in Scotland, so he was getting this information from correspondents who went to the matches. So if the promoters did a local title change or a return match angle (for example, held up the belt for a week or two, or reversed the decision later, among other choices) the fan may not have known or provided that information along to Jim.
thank you, this absolutely made my day, appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. this is the way to do it. now we need dates/places/match details and then it becomes a part of wrestling history for real, for an actual fact.
I sent these to Hisaharu at wrestling-titles years ago, he said he'd found evidence in the newspapers to match these finds. I'm not sure what newspaper archives he uses but it's not the BNA that I use.
do you have any actual match reports for those phenomenal finds, the JP title changes from the early 1950s. Also somehow and at some point E. Baldwin resigned, his title became vacant, my understanding he never officially lost it...and after that they had a KO won by Billy Joyce. Is that all correct?!
thank you. still there is a question. whose champ was Gregory in 38, and whose champ was Mancelli in 1955.
it has been clearly demonstrated over this last few weeks on this forum that we no longer can just say the "champ". it is simply NOT working for the British pro wrestling reality in the twentieth century.
We have to be specific, and first name the promotion, and then the brand of pro wrestling, then name the wrestler, and then the years when he was the champ.
Talking of 1955 only. I have just been through the year looking at paper bills and I can see Ernie Baldwin advertised as champion nearly every month. When Assiratti popped up he seemed to get European Champion.
I can only see Mancelli as Southern area champ.
Of note in November 1955 Baldwin was champ at Hanley, where he lost to Count Bartelli , but no mention of it being for the title. It did say it was under Lord Mountevans Rules.
Wrestling adverts were so fickle I would not expect much sense from trying to track title changes.
If it absolutely mattered , they would have kept records.
Thank you Ron, they did. Oakeley even in the 50s on many of his programmes showed list of all his British Heavyweight champs since the early 1930s. Some did, and some did not.
I am positive, Mancelli was not the JP British heavyweight champ in 1955.
I am positive, Assirati was not the JP British heavyweight champ in 1955 either.
Baldwin was still the JP champ.
Now serious question.
When exactly did Baldwin lose his title and to whom, did anyone ever beat him for the JP heavyweight championship?
There were several title changes in 1955. The names you mentioned (Sullivan & Mancelli) came from Jim Craig's fanzine that reported the title changes. There may be other sources, but we also have newspaper bills where Mancelli & Sullivan were billed as champion for short time frames.
I want to emphasise that the information comes from a fanzine, because these were local title changes, it was a small group of fans that collected and shared this information to like-minded people. I don't think Mat magazine was still running in 1955 (but I could wrong) so I don't think Morrell was publicising any of this activity. Dale Martin didn't have a magazine at this time.
Again, something might have happened in 1955 but BALDWIN was no longer a champ. and as we already figured it is not anyhow related to his match v ASSIRATI. Someone else was British Hwt Champ in 55, and I do not know who that wrestler was. I hope you my friends also find this research worth of your time and effort, just as I do so. thank YOU.
I think Dai Sullivan was mid 30's in 1955 and Tony Mancelli would have been older, to answer Ruslan's question about their age. Not sure exactly how old Tony Mancelli would have been in 1955, but even if he started wrestling at 16 year of age (around 1931), that would make him at least 40 by the mid 1950's.
Joint did not get control of Belle Vue until 1956. Rogers was in effect a rogue operator who had hung on from the war time , and I assume the Belle Vue Estate management were happy with him. I would not look too deep at this , but of course you enjoy it all and why not.
I think you will find in 1955 that George was 50 years old. He did only a handful of jobs for Dick Rogers that year and bowed out. They could bill him how they wanted , but he was not the British heavyweight Champ in 1955.
I received one of these typewritten issues in the 50',s. I can't remember why, but it was mostly about Norman Walsh and his titles. I showed it to Norman and Flo and they said some of it was true and some not. Can't remember the details now.
Just as an FYI, Jim Craig lived in Scotland, so he was getting this information from correspondents who went to the matches. So if the promoters did a local title change or a return match angle (for example, held up the belt for a week or two, or reversed the decision later, among other choices) the fan may not have known or provided that information along to Jim.
It's fine to follow these title changes for amusement.
It's fine to follow them to try and understand the nonsense.
It's not so fine to try and make sense of the nonsense.
George Gregory had the heavy champ in 1938. Mancelli champ in 1955.
Talking of 1955 only. I have just been through the year looking at paper bills and I can see Ernie Baldwin advertised as champion nearly every month. When Assiratti popped up he seemed to get European Champion.
I can only see Mancelli as Southern area champ.
Of note in November 1955 Baldwin was champ at Hanley, where he lost to Count Bartelli , but no mention of it being for the title. It did say it was under Lord Mountevans Rules.
Wrestling adverts were so fickle I would not expect much sense from trying to track title changes.
If it absolutely mattered , they would have kept records.
There were several title changes in 1955. The names you mentioned (Sullivan & Mancelli) came from Jim Craig's fanzine that reported the title changes. There may be other sources, but we also have newspaper bills where Mancelli & Sullivan were billed as champion for short time frames.
I want to emphasise that the information comes from a fanzine, because these were local title changes, it was a small group of fans that collected and shared this information to like-minded people. I don't think Mat magazine was still running in 1955 (but I could wrong) so I don't think Morrell was publicising any of this activity. Dale Martin didn't have a magazine at this time.
Again, something might have happened in 1955 but BALDWIN was no longer a champ. and as we already figured it is not anyhow related to his match v ASSIRATI. Someone else was British Hwt Champ in 55, and I do not know who that wrestler was. I hope you my friends also find this research worth of your time and effort, just as I do so. thank YOU.
I think Dai Sullivan was mid 30's in 1955 and Tony Mancelli would have been older, to answer Ruslan's question about their age. Not sure exactly how old Tony Mancelli would have been in 1955, but even if he started wrestling at 16 year of age (around 1931), that would make him at least 40 by the mid 1950's.
Joint did not get control of Belle Vue until 1956. Rogers was in effect a rogue operator who had hung on from the war time , and I assume the Belle Vue Estate management were happy with him. I would not look too deep at this , but of course you enjoy it all and why not.
I think you will find in 1955 that George was 50 years old. He did only a handful of jobs for Dick Rogers that year and bowed out. They could bill him how they wanted , but he was not the British heavyweight Champ in 1955.