I always remember a contest i used to have on VHS tape many years ago between Mal Kirk and Johnny Wilson (not the one on youtube).The climax came when Kirk elbow dropped Wilson for the pin and Wilson appeared to be in a lot of distress, subsequently the bout was stopped. Wilson was spluttering and Kirk couldn't pin Wilson because of his flailing, but as i said the contest was stopped. This was the contest where Shirley appeared at the end demanding a showdown with Kirk but Kirk refused to sign the "supposed" contract and subsequently ate it! Having read what happened to Bobby it makes me wonder if Johnny Wilson was also genuinely injured by Kirk's Guillotine.
I have just watched the tag bout again on youtube and you can see Bobby waving his right hand to indicate he was hurt, as Lee said in his above post, after the elbow drop at 3.30 of the bout. Bobby was brave to continue and finish the bout. I don't blame him for refusing to do any more tags with Big Daddy after this one.
Hope your Dad made a full recovery and is enjoying life. Give him our very best wishes and thanks for being a part of such a great British institution and important part of all of our younger days. Be lovely if he fancies sharing a few stories.
Earlier today I showed dad (Bobby) this thread and he asked me to thank you for the kind comment about him. We watched the bout on youtube and it was the elbow drop at 3:30 which caught him. If you notice, bobby signals with his right hand slighty and waves.
Max Seemed to be out for the fast buck, it also seemed very short sighted to build the whole business around the Daddy show. wrestlers Like Dave Finley being used as Daddy fodder was a crime. I know Shirley was in poor health towards the end and maybe he too was exploited my his brothers greed. Who knows.
Not sure if it’s still there but there used to be a bout with Big Daddy and John Elijah YouTube which is quite an eye opener-showing Daddy actually wrestling. Check it out if you’re bored … very bored.
Max said it himself Frank, he knew many a terrific wrestler that couldn't draw a penny at the door. Don't get me wrong as i got older i tired of the same Daddy routine but that was down to Max. Apparently until Max gained full control of Joint other promoters were happy to see Shirley in more legit contests, but according to Tony Earnshaw's latest book Max wanted the opposite and so began the Big Daddy routine on repeat. . In saying that i never saw an unhappy face on TV broadcasts or the halls i attended and to top it all the promoters had to make do with the ever diminishing stock base of wrestlers. If some of the big name heavyweights of the 60s hadn't disappeared for whatever reason then we would have probably seen a different scene during the 70s & 80s.
He was popular in the same way as The Spice girls are popular. Not because of talent because of hype. If Rocco v Jones was being fought in one hall and on the same night Daddy was down the road masquerading as a wrestler in a 30 second belly butting contest I know where I'd be going.
The public are easily manipulated into liking or believing whatever they're programmed to.
Totally agree with you Norfolk Snake, the comment about modern wrestling is 100% accurate, "Celebrity Come Dancing" isn't as well choreographed as modern day pro wrestling. I too was a fan of Shirley's as a kid in 70s/80s but also of the other stars that were around at the time. When viewing the American promotions for the first time during the mid 80's i remember thinking to myself is this it! all the ballyhoo i had read in U.S. magazines didn't resemble what i was watching.
So, what we keep forgetting is how insanely popular Big Daddy was for a huge part of the audience. As a kid I was one of them. As i grew older it lost its appeal ....but....for a time the audiences came, they loved it and as has been said many times the Daddy roadshow created bookings in halls and work for the others on the bill. Now that everyone seems to know everything about the business it seems easy to ridicule, but watch some of the American stuff from a similar and later era and there was just as much show orientated performances that could be deemed equally cringeworthy. I just watched the above tag and can see its merits, not as bad as some might portray. I think what i think equally or more insulting to the business is some of the modern coriographed stuff. Great athletics, yes, but wrestling of the style many on here predumably love, there is very little to be seen. But again its the evolution of the spectacle i
Well said Powerlock. That fridge on legs in a giant baby grow was a total joke.
Interesting tread. I didn’t remember Bobby so I’ve just had a look on YouTube. What a fine wrestler, another example of talent going to waste by the clueless money grabbing short term thinking Crabtree clan.
@Peter It was the the Crabtree way give Daddy a much smaller tag partner who could actually wrestle and have him bounced around the ring for about 90% of the match by the two very large villains. Then Daddy does his superhero act, a couple of belly bumps later and Shirley and his well pummelled partner are declared the winners. Unimaginative matchmaking and a poor spectacle for the fans.
I watched that Oldham tag bout again the other night and Bobby does seem to take some heavy blows from Kirk and Harris. It also has a slightly odd ending - Shirley sets up the double elbow backdrop finisher on Mal, but the latter seems to get cold feet and moves to one side. Mal then gets up and climbs out of the ring, getting counted out in the process. I wonder if this was a hasty bit of improvisation?
Thank you leerylands1982 for confirming the rumour that I had heard about that tag match in 1979 was true and explaining things to us.
I thought that your dad was a very good wrestler but he probably did make the correct decision to concentrate on his sales career. We have all heard stories about the poor physical state some wrestlers bodies ended up in, after a long career as a wrestler.
Very best wishes to Bobby, yourself and all your family.
Mmm don't know what to make of the Kirk/Harris comment by Bobby Ryan, if it concerns the televised tag bout (it's on youtube) he didn't appear injured to me and he gave a good account of himself. It may have occurred in a non televised encounter up and down the halls i suppose but both Kirk & Harris were regarded as a safe pair of hands. Perhaps Bobby just wanted out of professional wrestling altogether.
it was that bout that injured Bobby, he damaged his wind pipe and told Max that he took liberties wit him that night putting him on with two very large opponents. Max didnt take exception to that comment but dad was looking at what life would be like into his 40s \ 50s at the time and opportunities arose in his sales profession which was a more sound career moving forward than wrestling. Loosing his father who was such a large influence further cemented his idea of hanging up his boots.
Whoa! That sounds nasty. It just goes to show how tough these lads were disguising the pain at the time in front of an audience. I can thoroughly appreciate his decision to quit professional wrestling, he was a loss to we the fans as he was a great wrestler, but a gain to you and the rest of his family. Kind wishes to you, Bobby and your family.
I recall the TV tag match in which Ryan partnered Crabtree against Kirk and Harris and it was highly enjoyable. I know little about Harris but Kirk, although giving the appearance of being a vicious brute, had a reputation I believe for being a light worker so am surprised to hear of Ryan's refusal to partner Crabtree in future matches.
I don't know if copies still exist, but an excellent tag match in which Ryan partook for the TV cameras saw him partnered by Pablo The Gypsy against The Borg Twins; a Martin Conroy booking under the Wryton banner. I also have fond memories of a tidy little bout with John Wilkie, an excellent contest with Peter Kaye and a rather messy affair with Tony Kelly (all for the TV cameras)·
Further to my above posting earlier today I just thought that I would add that Bobby Ryan's sister posted an entry on this forum in December last year, in a forum topic discussing their father Stan Rylands. She asked if anyone had any wrestling memorabilia about Bobby's wrestling career. I did send her a couple of articles that I had. She said thank you and said that Bobby also said thank you for what I had sent and that he was well.
I believe that he is retired and living with his family, still somewhere in the Stoke area, where he grew up.
Bobby Ryan was the son of Stan Rylands, who had refereed the famous Kendo Nagsaki vs Count Bartelli unmasking match in 1966.
I thought that Bobby Ryan was a very good wrestler and I was a big fan of him when I started watching wrestling in 1977. He had a good run as European Lightweight Champion between 1975 and 1977 and I was upset when I heard that he had lost his title to Jim Breaks.
He had been a regular tag partner to Big Daddy between early 1977 to early 1979 but I have heard that after taking quite a beating in a March 1979 tag against Mal 'King Kong' Kirk and Judd Harris he refused to do any more tags with Big Daddy. After making this decision he carried on as a wrestler but his TV appearances became much fewer and he was never a title holder again (maybe Max Crabtree was punishing him for refusing to tag with Big Daddy anymore?).
His father died in 1982 and Bobby Ryan retired soon afterwards in his early 30's and concentrated on his soft drinks business.
I had read in several wrestling magazine articles that he was a very keen motor cyclist as a youngster and nearly took this up as a career instead of wrestling.
I always remember a contest i used to have on VHS tape many years ago between Mal Kirk and Johnny Wilson (not the one on youtube).The climax came when Kirk elbow dropped Wilson for the pin and Wilson appeared to be in a lot of distress, subsequently the bout was stopped. Wilson was spluttering and Kirk couldn't pin Wilson because of his flailing, but as i said the contest was stopped. This was the contest where Shirley appeared at the end demanding a showdown with Kirk but Kirk refused to sign the "supposed" contract and subsequently ate it! Having read what happened to Bobby it makes me wonder if Johnny Wilson was also genuinely injured by Kirk's Guillotine.
I have just watched the tag bout again on youtube and you can see Bobby waving his right hand to indicate he was hurt, as Lee said in his above post, after the elbow drop at 3.30 of the bout. Bobby was brave to continue and finish the bout. I don't blame him for refusing to do any more tags with Big Daddy after this one.
Add me to the people wishing Bobby the best of things.He was a class act.
Hope your Dad made a full recovery and is enjoying life. Give him our very best wishes and thanks for being a part of such a great British institution and important part of all of our younger days. Be lovely if he fancies sharing a few stories.
You must be a very proud daughter. ☺️
Earlier today I showed dad (Bobby) this thread and he asked me to thank you for the kind comment about him. We watched the bout on youtube and it was the elbow drop at 3:30 which caught him. If you notice, bobby signals with his right hand slighty and waves.
Hi Alan. 😁
Max Seemed to be out for the fast buck, it also seemed very short sighted to build the whole business around the Daddy show. wrestlers Like Dave Finley being used as Daddy fodder was a crime. I know Shirley was in poor health towards the end and maybe he too was exploited my his brothers greed. Who knows.
Not sure if it’s still there but there used to be a bout with Big Daddy and John Elijah YouTube which is quite an eye opener-showing Daddy actually wrestling. Check it out if you’re bored … very bored.
Max said it himself Frank, he knew many a terrific wrestler that couldn't draw a penny at the door. Don't get me wrong as i got older i tired of the same Daddy routine but that was down to Max. Apparently until Max gained full control of Joint other promoters were happy to see Shirley in more legit contests, but according to Tony Earnshaw's latest book Max wanted the opposite and so began the Big Daddy routine on repeat. . In saying that i never saw an unhappy face on TV broadcasts or the halls i attended and to top it all the promoters had to make do with the ever diminishing stock base of wrestlers. If some of the big name heavyweights of the 60s hadn't disappeared for whatever reason then we would have probably seen a different scene during the 70s & 80s.
He was popular in the same way as The Spice girls are popular. Not because of talent because of hype. If Rocco v Jones was being fought in one hall and on the same night Daddy was down the road masquerading as a wrestler in a 30 second belly butting contest I know where I'd be going.
The public are easily manipulated into liking or believing whatever they're programmed to.
Totally agree with you Norfolk Snake, the comment about modern wrestling is 100% accurate, "Celebrity Come Dancing" isn't as well choreographed as modern day pro wrestling. I too was a fan of Shirley's as a kid in 70s/80s but also of the other stars that were around at the time. When viewing the American promotions for the first time during the mid 80's i remember thinking to myself is this it! all the ballyhoo i had read in U.S. magazines didn't resemble what i was watching.
So, what we keep forgetting is how insanely popular Big Daddy was for a huge part of the audience. As a kid I was one of them. As i grew older it lost its appeal ....but....for a time the audiences came, they loved it and as has been said many times the Daddy roadshow created bookings in halls and work for the others on the bill. Now that everyone seems to know everything about the business it seems easy to ridicule, but watch some of the American stuff from a similar and later era and there was just as much show orientated performances that could be deemed equally cringeworthy. I just watched the above tag and can see its merits, not as bad as some might portray. I think what i think equally or more insulting to the business is some of the modern coriographed stuff. Great athletics, yes, but wrestling of the style many on here predumably love, there is very little to be seen. But again its the evolution of the spectacle i
Well said Powerlock. That fridge on legs in a giant baby grow was a total joke.
Interesting tread. I didn’t remember Bobby so I’ve just had a look on YouTube. What a fine wrestler, another example of talent going to waste by the clueless money grabbing short term thinking Crabtree clan.
What an absurd piece of matchmaking putting such an excellent wrestler in a Crabtree tag with heavyweights
I watched that Oldham tag bout again the other night and Bobby does seem to take some heavy blows from Kirk and Harris. It also has a slightly odd ending - Shirley sets up the double elbow backdrop finisher on Mal, but the latter seems to get cold feet and moves to one side. Mal then gets up and climbs out of the ring, getting counted out in the process. I wonder if this was a hasty bit of improvisation?
Thank you leerylands1982 for confirming the rumour that I had heard about that tag match in 1979 was true and explaining things to us.
I thought that your dad was a very good wrestler but he probably did make the correct decision to concentrate on his sales career. We have all heard stories about the poor physical state some wrestlers bodies ended up in, after a long career as a wrestler.
Very best wishes to Bobby, yourself and all your family.
Mmm don't know what to make of the Kirk/Harris comment by Bobby Ryan, if it concerns the televised tag bout (it's on youtube) he didn't appear injured to me and he gave a good account of himself. It may have occurred in a non televised encounter up and down the halls i suppose but both Kirk & Harris were regarded as a safe pair of hands. Perhaps Bobby just wanted out of professional wrestling altogether.
I recall the TV tag match in which Ryan partnered Crabtree against Kirk and Harris and it was highly enjoyable. I know little about Harris but Kirk, although giving the appearance of being a vicious brute, had a reputation I believe for being a light worker so am surprised to hear of Ryan's refusal to partner Crabtree in future matches.
I don't know if copies still exist, but an excellent tag match in which Ryan partook for the TV cameras saw him partnered by Pablo The Gypsy against The Borg Twins; a Martin Conroy booking under the Wryton banner. I also have fond memories of a tidy little bout with John Wilkie, an excellent contest with Peter Kaye and a rather messy affair with Tony Kelly (all for the TV cameras)·
Further to my above posting earlier today I just thought that I would add that Bobby Ryan's sister posted an entry on this forum in December last year, in a forum topic discussing their father Stan Rylands. She asked if anyone had any wrestling memorabilia about Bobby's wrestling career. I did send her a couple of articles that I had. She said thank you and said that Bobby also said thank you for what I had sent and that he was well.
I believe that he is retired and living with his family, still somewhere in the Stoke area, where he grew up.
Bobby Ryan was the son of Stan Rylands, who had refereed the famous Kendo Nagsaki vs Count Bartelli unmasking match in 1966.
I thought that Bobby Ryan was a very good wrestler and I was a big fan of him when I started watching wrestling in 1977. He had a good run as European Lightweight Champion between 1975 and 1977 and I was upset when I heard that he had lost his title to Jim Breaks.
He had been a regular tag partner to Big Daddy between early 1977 to early 1979 but I have heard that after taking quite a beating in a March 1979 tag against Mal 'King Kong' Kirk and Judd Harris he refused to do any more tags with Big Daddy. After making this decision he carried on as a wrestler but his TV appearances became much fewer and he was never a title holder again (maybe Max Crabtree was punishing him for refusing to tag with Big Daddy anymore?).
His father died in 1982 and Bobby Ryan retired soon afterwards in his early 30's and concentrated on his soft drinks business.
I had read in several wrestling magazine articles that he was a very keen motor cyclist as a youngster and nearly took this up as a career instead of wrestling.
At least plenty of his matches are still availble