Apart from the celebrated Preston-McManus incident were there any other major crosses people know of ?
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Talk Wrestling
Share your memories of British wrestling 1930 - 1988
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A very important double-cross was Ricki Starr. We can only ponder the circumstances but the version I have pieced together for myself is this.
In 1962 he wrestled the great Alan Garfield multiple times States-side. He must have seriously rated the way Garfield sold his show,
Garfield returns to UK 1963, wrestling for Lincoln.
Garfield convinces Lincoln of Starr's great worth and Lincoln brings him over.
All is signed up, Lincoln begins his 1964 promotion of Starr.
Then whoosh, carpet whipped from under feet and Starr arrives on Dale Martin bills, with the carrot of tv exposure.
I have mentioned recently the Lincoln-DM feud, with Southend being an epicentre of the battles.
Then what happens? Garfield is suddenly brought back to the fold, as if by reward, and appears on the at-the-time highly prestigious World of Sport (before his final banishment in the 1965 Gwyn Davies match.) Let's not forget that 1965 prestige.
And in one poignant match in Brighton, Garfield is just about the only sixties wrestler in the UK to claim a victory over Starr. Such sweet payback. We saw last week how Les failed in 14 bouts against Starr.
Nails in coffin, Lincoln metaphorically and probably physically gutted, finally gives up the ghost and sells out late 1965. Dale Martin had won the battles of Southend, Ricki Starr, the tv contract, and too many others.
Alan Garfield, at least initially, pretty much Starr's manager.
Might be wrong, but it all fits like a jigsaw.
Preston-McManus. Zbyszko-Munn. Hart-Michaels. Nothing beats a screwjob story for us fans, historians, anoraks. None of us will ever know. Least of all me. But if you think it might have been worked - then it probably was.
Yes, Ron. The memories bring the stats to life. Your chap at the back was probably dead on with his assessment.
Nowadays as fans we are pretty well-informed and our deductions often hold a lot of weight.
Back in the day, we didn't have any real inkling about the inside workings, did we? Nevertheless, there was no shortage of experts. Do you how much your fellow was an insider or worked out the goings on for himself?
I'm afraid the experts I mingled with assured me that Kwango's head was really hard.
While it's not exactly a double-cross, Jackie Pallo said in his book that the Belshaw's would go off script, just because they could, and one of them (Cliff, I think) gave Jackie a tough time, one night, tying him up in knots and slapping on submission holds, only to let Jackie take the win, as planned.
Yes Anglo , knowing what we know now , I think you are right. The upshot is , one of the other bouts would have needed to have been a long one.
It's funny how some people had their favourites and people they remember.
once seen , never forgotten like Giant Haystacks.
Yet for me , I was fascinated by Streiger , Gargantua Moran and also Don Vines.
Being fairly local I would have thought Clark Mellor (Streiger) would have been more regular at Belle Vue. I actually saw him a lot more on the Indy's and also at Buxton.
You never know what to believe. I was talking with a guy at the back of Belle Vue one night and I took it with a pinch of salt.
But he said to me , non of the heavies could live with Billy Robinson , he could tie them all up in knots at will. He mentioned that Streiger and Thornton were not happy that Kendo always had to win and could not be trusted to go over.
I was a big Rocky Wall fan at the time , I believe Albert said Billy was difficult to work with.
I do think about that guy who told me all this , at that time he sure as hell knew a lot more rumours than I ever found out.
I digress , but I know you love memories Anglo.
"Suspended purse" sounds very much like a planned outcome, Ron.
Very very short matches were not uncommon: sometimes one of the wrestlers was carrying a very real injury; or maybe they just had to get away early, perhaps to sub at another venue for the same promoter.
Surely any real double-crossing would see a wrestler sacked. And probably not paid.
In my opinion, the real double-crossing we see is at the end of a wrestler's career when, like Billy Joyce, he refuses to co-operate by relinquishing his belt. At that time he doesn't need to worry about being sacked.
I can't remember who he fought at Belle Vue , but one night I saw Streiger get disqualified inside one minute with no public warnings. He just got hold of a guy like Logan or McManus would but hit him really hard to the face. MC Martin Conroy made a big play that he would not get his purse that night. Did not see him again at Belle Vue for a long time.
The question is , would they really script such a short bout for any reason , or did Streiger have a beef with the Promotion.
I have no idea.
The general silence is because, I fear, the question looks for reality in the wholly theatrical world of professional wrestling.
It's what makes the one double-cross we are sure of so fascinating.
But I can now recall another from 1966/67.
Adrian Street was quite excited at being billed to wrestle George Kidd for the world title. A few weeks before he was to appear on tv and was booked to lose to Musa the Turk. Adrian thought to himself: "How will the punters see me as a credible world title claimant if I am seen losing against this little fellow?"
So he duly put himself over.
I forget who, but someone in authority at Dale Martin was furious, but he seemed to get away with it.
This was Adrian's story. Sounds credible. The only bit that worries me is something we were discussing just a few days ago about Steve Logan and have mentioned on and off down the years: we believe wrestlers are booked for dates and venues without knowing the identity of the opponent and find out when they arrive at the venue. I suppose we can give Adrian the benefit of the doubt as he may indeed have been aware of the prestigious booking.
The other one that comes to mind is the mini-feud between Peter Rann and Les Kellett in 1972. I remember seeing Kellett lose on a late night show and a rematch was hastily arranged. Rann was a lesser light so it was a surprise to say the least. Whether Rann was going against script we shall now never know.