Dear Friends, the recent find by Ron revealed the match which was considered the 1965 match of the season. British Champion Joice faced Winner of KO Tourney at Belle Vue. Davies for the undisputed championship The Relwyskow's Sr Belt held by Davies and Championship held by Joyce were at stake.
Does anyone know which belt it actually was?
Below is the photo of Marino with famous 1909 Relwyskow's Belt.
I agree with you Ron, very often finds of historical photos of champions is a matter of luck. And yes pretty sure after the match Rlwyskow's Belt was put into fitted wooden case and both wrestlers never saw it again. Though I still do think that promotional photos of champions with their trophy were made.
I get the feeling that in the 1960's press coverage was all but dying out due to it becoming common knowledge that things were not real.
Also the circulation of wrestling magazines was quite small as real enthusiasm was niche.
In addition I think the promoters aim was just to fill the hall that night with some brilliant marketing , after that , it all lapsed and the trick was maybe used again without any real continuity.
There must have been far more wrestling going on than say boxing so hence the desire to keep records on anybodies part be it promoter or fan was not something that went on.
Hence even today we cannot seem to put our hands on a picture of Bomber Bates who wrestled for years before being the Ghoul.
It is amazing that on some occasions we do manage to find what we want so you might just get lucky , but it is a big ask.
As a researcher myself I have never mentioned , that if it was not for Promoter John Mortimer at Portsmouth (pre war) we would never have had pictures of some of the 1930's wrestlers.
He believed in coverage in the papers and his contribution was huge. He spared no expense in good illustration , so never give up. Even he has not given me Bomber Bates despite him being billed from Bristol in the early days. What a shame.
I still believe these wrestlers (Joyce and Davies) may never have taken the belt home.
What magnificent info and great poster for Gotz v Rel , so it really does go back to 1909.
I bet not many wrestlers knew all this.
You seem to be enchanted with these belts Ruslan......marvellous.
Relwyskow's pro career was during 1910s...but as mentioned before, there was no that much of pro wrestling happening in those years. He might have had his own "troupe of wrestlers" whom he regularly defeated in different towns. I do know that for sure he teamed up with Peter Gotz they were running shows together. I won't be surprised if Gotz sold his belts to Geo Relw Sr.
Real Lord Lonsdale Belt (only 6 such belts were ever produced).
Typical Joe Smith Belt (often called for promotional purposes a Lonsdale Belt).
1909 Relwyskow Belt
Besides that belt Relw was also called "holder of 4 Lonsdale belt", and that is the answer to many questions. It's not the first time when I see wrestlers, reporters, even fans calling Joe Smith Belts a Lonsdale Belts. Absolute falsehood and typical promotional ballyhoo. When Irslinger came to States he brought with him one of Smith Belts and advertised it as Lord Lonsdale Belt, number of such examples is truly countless. So I do think that Relwyskow held (bought) 4 Joe Smith Belts and in fact was calling them Lonsdale Belts.
This belt appeared on most of Relwyskow posters. And it is the same belt as shown on Mike Marino photo.
What I wonder is where did Relwyskow get the Gold and Silver Belt.
Was it one of a king and did he have it made for himself.
What I am reading is that in 1908 he won gold and silver medals at the Olympics and was given a further Gold Medal for his great achievement by Queen Alexandra.
He then turned pro to tour the music halls and at no time did I ever see him put that belt on the line.
His matches were always for prize money and percentage of gate.
Once he was pro I am not so sure he was ever really tested again.
Would I we right in saying he avoided all the famous lightweight Champions of Lancashire of the Alhambra era. (Jack Carroll , Tom Rose and also Peter Gotz)
With his style could he have won at true Lancashire Catch.
I think he missed Alhambra due to contractual commitments with his sponsor.
I was wondering if the Gold and Silver belt was to emulate his Olympic medals.
So Ruslan , maybe you can put me right ,where was the belt from and did it ever go on the line.
Are you suggesting he maybe bought or won a Joe Smith belt.
But again, fans who were there on December 18th, 1965 is the only hope to find out the truth on this matter.