I'm told this infamous mis-match where Dave slaughtered and threw The Black Prince around like a rag doll and no sold everything has been discussed on here sometime before I joined. If the topic has already been done then I wouldn't want to start it again but if someone can direct me to the original discussion I'd be grateful. Thanks.
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Typical that we did not get Prince on TV for another three years
I m curious too about all the controversy surrounding this bout. To my eyes it looks just like a heavy worked bout certainly not a shoot. Some in the States call them 'squash' matches. Surely there are loads of similar matches out there. Finlay went through a series of similar bouts in a build up to making him.'superman' Fit Finlay and a feud with Big Daddy. See his bouts against Grasshopper, Jackie Turpin and a young Danny Collins. He pulverised the latter as much he did Black Prince. If you wanted to see an equally brutal match watch Marty Jones v Bernie Wright. A heavy 'work' but was it a real knock out?
O.K I'll come out then. I believe there was more to it than meets the eye but I guess I could be wrong, I was wrong once but that was way back in 1976 so I don't think that really counts. Seriously tho anyone who doubts Finlay's credibility as a genuine hard man should watch the excellent documentary on YouTube called The fit Finley's. I would not want a war with that family!
Right, that's it I'm officially in a sulk. I'm not having it and I'm going to my room to plot my revenge on you both ...
Once again , i totally agree with the way you are reading it Sax.
Watched it again myself today. Those Bostons were to show how tough Prince was and all the other things like the knee to the head were good timing but not real.
It's still really nothing more than a clever work. Look at the "jumping knee" at the 18 minute mark, it doesn't even touch, and then after that, Finlay hoists Prince up into the correct position, for the running power slam, (Prince even starts putting his arms over Finlay's shoulders, to help get into place) so that he can make sure he holds Prince tightly around the shoulders, allowing his feet to make impact first, as he hits the canvas.
It's also not a case of Finlay "not selling" the moves, it's more a case of the "villain" always leads the match, and more importantly, Finlay was a seasoned pro, up against a rookie, Finlay was leading the match and knew the correct time for Prince to attempt a comeback, when it made sense to back off (like when Prince does a few flashy kicks near Finlay's face, and he backs off and complains to the ref, etc.), to make a better match up.
With all that being said, it is good to watch and is the sort of thing that ITV should have been showing on a more regular basis.
Its as likely that The Black Pudding had a black belt in Karate then Big Daddy left wrestling to join The royal school of ballet!
Maybe the clue is in Fred's opening words: "This is a special challenge contest." Unfortunately neither he nor Kent elaborated as to what was special.
With all his black belt in karate, could this have been some kind of show, to him or to other challenges from the karate world, that wrestling was legit and superior?
There was most definitely a Hierarchy within wrestling and I'm reliably informed by an ex pro who worked his way up that you had to earn respect and do as you are told until you were excepted into the fold which could be a lengthy process due to some wrestlers over safe guarding their status and some even being a bit of a bully if they thought they could get away with it. You had to take all the pranks like itching powder in your trunks and coming back to find your trousers soaking wet on the chin. If you were foolish enough to be the newcomer who strutted around like Bertie big boll..ks you'd sooner or later get slapped down. I have a feeling this is what happened. As for Kent Walton saying we would surely see more of The Black punchbag he was clearly being kind and as it goes we didn't see much more of him although I believe he reinvented himself from Karate Kid to some kind of solider. Hope he had more success with that one!
Am i right in thinking that this match was mid to late 80's? I seem to remember Finlay in a series of matches against far lighter opponents, Danny Collins, Jackie Turpin and Jonny Saint, with a number ending in Knockouts. If this is the match i am thinking of, then Kent Walton seemed to rate it and Black Prince, saying 'I am sure we will see a lot more of him.'
I am wondering if Finlay was taking liberties, was there not a mechanism to end the match prematurely?
Wonder if Finlay ever went in with Streiger. Would have been a Hum Dinger
Interesting to hear the different perspectives on this one but for me (and Steve Regal who talks about it in one of his podcasts) Finlay half heartedly sells about 3 moves very briefly, then basically just beats him up, makes him look awful and hardly breaks sweat. That wasn't the usual Finlay at all, He clearly didn't like him. He refused to sell 90% of Black Princes moves, refuses to be posted and slams him about like a rag doll for the whole match, even Kent Walton sounds embarrassed and makes excuse after excuse for the whole bout. Check out that drop on Finlay's knee at 16.04, absolutely vicious. Of course I could be wrong but to me this one looks personal and I think someone was being taught a lesson.
Must agree Saxo.Finlay sold several of Prince's moves,and Prince does a great job.That was what I would call "making it look real".Both guys earned their wages in this one.
Exactly Ron, even towards the end of the match, Finlay sells for Prince to look like he is almost going to power out of the Boston crab.
Nah, it's a work, a clever one, but a work. Yes, Finlay is stiff and lays it on a bit, but there are parts of the match where he sells for the other guy.
Cheers Frank/Ron. I've watched it two or three times and there's defiantly more to it than meets the eye. Dave just makes and absolute fool of him and really executes some of those moves and throws in order to hurt him. Either Dave just didn't like him or something happened behind the scenes. I'd be interested to see the discussion if its still around?
I think the discussion may have been on the old Forum.
Think the match is on youtube, Frank. I've watched it a few times, personally think liberties were taken by Black Prince, and Dave, who never suffered fools.. Exacted his own brand of 'revenge'