Let's narrow down this category to naturalized British citizens only, please. My concern is about the wrestlers who actually permanently lived in UK, and wrestled in UK on regular basis not the come and go types. so to say basically they were British pro wrestlers but of foreign birth. Tibor is a perfect example. Another rasler from the same category would be someone like Borienko.
Tibor was undoubtedly a skilled wrestler but as competent as he was he never did it for me in the ring, I dound his matches very samey. He no doubt had the repetoire but very rarely used it to full effect.I would never have paid my money if he was the main attraction without a very strong undercard. I just don't think he was that big a draw.
I have another name I would like to discuss here - MIKE DEMITRE. He held both international titles locally (of the Green-Relw company) namely worlds and euros. Another question is about MIKE MARINO was he billed from Italy when he held the worlds/euros?
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Unknown member
Oct 03, 2023
Replying to
George Kidd called DeMitre the greatest leg wrestler ever in his TVTimes interview from 1977
Tibor must have cut a fine figure when he arrived in 1957. Indeed his 5 trophies were all in the immediately ensuing years. That was his Big Push. Some accolade.
But after that he wrestled in Dale Martin rings for 98% of his twenty-year career. He had the one show and trotted it out against all and sundry, including the best international visitors.
I was bored with Mick McManus through over-exposure. Torontos, Robby Baron, Logan and some others. Yes some non-Southerners on here laugh when I recall the excitement of seeing Ct Bartelli, Mick McMichael, Steve Best and Al Nicol early seventies.
Developing that, top marks to wrestlers you never tired of even after over-exposure: Alan Garfield, Bruno, Nagasaki, Jon Cortez, Steve Viedor, Prince Kumali, Romany Riley.
Hi Anglo. After I had seen Bruno a few times, I thought he was a good worker, but for a man of his size and the 'wild look', he just didn't scare me! Garfield did, as well as Campbell and Kovacs and even Danny Lynch, as you never knew what skullduggery they would get up to next.
I must admit Naggers had the look, technique and demeanour but when I watched him in the70s, it seemed the result was only going one way, just like Mick's matches.
Agree, John. When Nagasaki was young and wildly humgrey for success, and tv exposure, he was fascinating. Once he achieved the success he craved, he took his foot off the pedal, quite understandably. That's why his first ten years remain the ones of interest to me...how he got there in spite of various obstacles.
depends very much on the criteria but not Billy two rivers in all but drawing power.personally Jon Guil Don when I first saw in France then here was breathtaking.
Anglo, good question. Then what else could it be? Let's think together and see what we can figure out. Was he even a "big draw" category of performer. If we agree upon him belonging to that category then yes a legit question would be what made him a "big draw". What can make a performer a big draw. My most genuine answer would be probably whatever he did in the ring attracted crowds. But then I watched him on youtube. All I can see is definitely a showcase of his actual wrestling skills. I mean theoretically what else would you need in a pro wrestling match, right?! But it is not all that simple right? I got to have some other talents. Like one of such talents would be being in good relationships with a person who puts up the shows, the promoter, that they book you all the time. At the end of the day it is your paycheck, you better be booked the the more often you are booked the merrier it is. Then if you are on the card every single night you can claim OK I am a big draw type of guy, lol, right? What else? I am sure there are some other talents. Ok, long story short, who put those 5 RAHs titles on Tibor? And why they chosed him over others. Whose choice was that it has to be Tibor who will win it this year and next year and a few more times...and WHY?
McManus knew that he had to surround himself with athletic and credible-looking wrestlers to make his own aged and portly frame be at all credible. The whole cast had to be credible. Tibor was ideal. Our dose of sophisticated skill that we were required to imbibe in order to convince ourselves that others' antics were in any way real.
Ok. First of all thanks for the comments. And I am going to clarify few things.
Foreigner to me is a person of foreign origins regardless whether they became citizens or not and even if they became they almost always were themselves sorry meant to say 'played foreigners' in ring. Let's say Tibor always was billed from Budapest, Hungary, right? Never from Chelsea, London...lol. And yes I do mean people who actually lived and worked in UK permanently. So yes someone like Tibor. People for whom it was a daily job. People whom every wrestling fan in UK knew who they were. Definitely not some "star" from abroad brought by a promoter to perform for couple of months and then they are gone...till next time if that will even ever happen.
Now the greatest. The greatest?! Obviously titles, titles and titles again. Who in my opinion would have been the greatest? Let's say if Tibor or someone like Tibor held World or Euro title under Mount Evans System in UK. But he never did. And held it preferably for years. Maybe you know such person. I don't.
I do believe, or better say I want to believe that they crowned Tibor with 5 RAHs because he was all of the above, a technician when it comes to style and a big draw when it comes to popularity among the fans.
If I go back to when I first saw Tibor, in my youth, then first of all, he was highly touted by Uncle Kent (also THE WRESTLER mag.) The fact that he lived up to the hype and looked to the (mostly) uninitiated wrestling fan, to be the real deal in both appearance and skill went most of the way to believe that we were watching a master of his profession in action. This belief was practically sealed when for many years he won so many of his televised bouts.
Gordienko, being lauded as almost on another level, by Kenneth and especially Charles Mascall and any other magazine journalist, only appeared on the box spasmodically, compared with Tibor and therefore seemed to be a 'special treat' for the enthusiastic fan.
I saw Tibor a few times live and many times on t.v. and always enjoyed his work, however when I saw George as a young teenager I was blown away by his look (size) and was a huge fan from that day. (Even though he lost the match)!
Starr, was a great entertainer, a small heavyweight who by his sheer workrate, convinced you, that he could take on the bigger guys and probably win.
I'd add Joseph Kovacs, to the list. Had he'd been put over some of the top blue eyes, on t.v. in a single season, he had the look and the skill to have stayed for a few years, like the Zebra Kid.
Gordienko for me, but can see why people are making a case for others. Billy Two Rivers was a household name in the 1960's, whether you watched wrestling or not (along with Mick McManus and possibly Jackie Pallo).
Are we talking about 'great' as in greatest drawing foreigner or 'great' as in best technical wrestler.I think we decided some years ago that Starr was the greatest draw and Two Rivers not far behind,however,I think John Quinn was also up there.If were talking about greatest technician then for me it was Gordienko by a country mile.
Yes, good question. As John says, it's all about what makes GREAT.
Agree on Gordienko and Starr and Thesz. Can throw in Jon Guil Don, Hackenschmidt, Horst Hoffman, Masambula.
Purely "on form" we would have to consider Wolfgang Starck/Saturski since he won the Royal Albert Hall Tournament Trophy at the height of that competition's prestige.
But then Tibor won it 5 times....so maybe Ruslan is right.
Visitor, or resident foreigner? Szakacs for resident. Gordienko for visitor, although some could make a case for Lou Thesz. Box office, Ricki Starr. Good question Ruslan.
Ski Hi Lee was a big name and lived over here.
In the lighter weights Zolly Boszkic.
Photo from the Royal Albert Hall in May 1963
Let's narrow down this category to naturalized British citizens only, please. My concern is about the wrestlers who actually permanently lived in UK, and wrestled in UK on regular basis not the come and go types. so to say basically they were British pro wrestlers but of foreign birth. Tibor is a perfect example. Another rasler from the same category would be someone like Borienko.
Gordienko without a doubt. Kovacs very formidable. The appearance of both Starr and Two Rivers could sell out a venue.
The Americans, Frankie Townsend and Catalina George Drake were good imports during the early sixties.
Tibor was undoubtedly a skilled wrestler but as competent as he was he never did it for me in the ring, I dound his matches very samey. He no doubt had the repetoire but very rarely used it to full effect.I would never have paid my money if he was the main attraction without a very strong undercard. I just don't think he was that big a draw.
Tibor died on this day in 1981.
I have another name I would like to discuss here - MIKE DEMITRE. He held both international titles locally (of the Green-Relw company) namely worlds and euros. Another question is about MIKE MARINO was he billed from Italy when he held the worlds/euros?
We should separate out boring from over-exposure.
Tibor must have cut a fine figure when he arrived in 1957. Indeed his 5 trophies were all in the immediately ensuing years. That was his Big Push. Some accolade.
But after that he wrestled in Dale Martin rings for 98% of his twenty-year career. He had the one show and trotted it out against all and sundry, including the best international visitors.
I was bored with Mick McManus through over-exposure. Torontos, Robby Baron, Logan and some others. Yes some non-Southerners on here laugh when I recall the excitement of seeing Ct Bartelli, Mick McMichael, Steve Best and Al Nicol early seventies.
Developing that, top marks to wrestlers you never tired of even after over-exposure: Alan Garfield, Bruno, Nagasaki, Jon Cortez, Steve Viedor, Prince Kumali, Romany Riley.
I meant TS and not JGD
This is probably heresy and a lack of my knowledge but I always found him boring
depends very much on the criteria but not Billy two rivers in all but drawing power.personally Jon Guil Don when I first saw in France then here was breathtaking.
Was Tibor really a big draw because of "popularity among the fans"?
Ok. First of all thanks for the comments. And I am going to clarify few things.
Foreigner to me is a person of foreign origins regardless whether they became citizens or not and even if they became they almost always were themselves sorry meant to say 'played foreigners' in ring. Let's say Tibor always was billed from Budapest, Hungary, right? Never from Chelsea, London...lol. And yes I do mean people who actually lived and worked in UK permanently. So yes someone like Tibor. People for whom it was a daily job. People whom every wrestling fan in UK knew who they were. Definitely not some "star" from abroad brought by a promoter to perform for couple of months and then they are gone...till next time if that will even ever happen.
Now the greatest. The greatest?! Obviously titles, titles and titles again. Who in my opinion would have been the greatest? Let's say if Tibor or someone like Tibor held World or Euro title under Mount Evans System in UK. But he never did. And held it preferably for years. Maybe you know such person. I don't.
I do believe, or better say I want to believe that they crowned Tibor with 5 RAHs because he was all of the above, a technician when it comes to style and a big draw when it comes to popularity among the fans.
Thanks again. R
Rikki Starr,,,,,Box Office,,,,,,and he could wrestle
Gordienko for me, but can see why people are making a case for others. Billy Two Rivers was a household name in the 1960's, whether you watched wrestling or not (along with Mick McManus and possibly Jackie Pallo).
what about Paul Lincoln not only as the Dr but as a promoter?
Are we talking about 'great' as in greatest drawing foreigner or 'great' as in best technical wrestler.I think we decided some years ago that Starr was the greatest draw and Two Rivers not far behind,however,I think John Quinn was also up there.If were talking about greatest technician then for me it was Gordienko by a country mile.
Yes, good question. As John says, it's all about what makes GREAT.
Agree on Gordienko and Starr and Thesz. Can throw in Jon Guil Don, Hackenschmidt, Horst Hoffman, Masambula.
Purely "on form" we would have to consider Wolfgang Starck/Saturski since he won the Royal Albert Hall Tournament Trophy at the height of that competition's prestige.
But then Tibor won it 5 times....so maybe Ruslan is right.
For longevity, maybe Masambula.
Visitor, or resident foreigner? Szakacs for resident. Gordienko for visitor, although some could make a case for Lou Thesz. Box office, Ricki Starr. Good question Ruslan.