Hard Wrestlers

A good read from Eddie Rose, always enjoy reading about his time and opponents in the ring.

In DK's own book, "Pure Dynamite", he tells a story of how Steve Wright comes to Calgary Stampede Wrestling, in Canada, where Dynamite was already a star, and the other wrestlers start to refuse to be matched against him, because he is too good, and he wants to show the crowd what he can do, to get himself over, at the expense of his opponent. So he doesn't sell the "kick-punch-whip into the corner" crude stuff, and starts to tie his opponent up in knots, and catch them in submission holds.

It may have been Stu Hart, or one of his sons, who goes to DK and tells him that he has to go in the ring with Steve Wright, for the rest of the tour, because they will lose money if not, as no one else will do it. Dynamite knows that Steve Wright is a Ted Betley man, and with a lot more years experience than he has.

Dynamite Kid takes one for the team, and agrees to go in with Steve Wright, and he says he basically gets a Wrestling masterclass lesson from Wright.

I don't think Dynamite Kid, says outright that Steve is a hard man, but if you think about it, if you make other guys look bad in the ring, you would expect at least one of them to come up to you in the dressing room after and maybe make threats, I don't think anyone did that to Steve Wright.

Final point on this, I often think of Steve Wright as the skinny "wonder kid", but if you look at his 1980's matches in Japan, against Tiger Mask, in Germany, and in the UK as Bull Blitzer, he had really filled out and was probably a real handful.

Great stuff Eddie! Usually when this subject is brought up The Dynamite Kid is mentioned and yet I've read on two different occasions (I think one was in the Bret Hart book) that the Kid was really very wary of tangling with Steve Wright. Fabulous wrestler, but looks do indeed deceive, if he was a 'hard man' in the same categorie as the men Eddie mentions?

This forum topic is getting into a North v South issue! The point from Eddie Rose is who were the hard guys that HE fought against, not just opinions on any wrestlers of that time age.

After saying that however, I think we should look at why a lot of northern wrestlers were so hard.

One particular thing that springs to light is the fact that many of them were miners, meaning that they had to be hard working down the mines by day and wrestling at nights.

Cheers

"...I see you mention the wary/worry distinction for the second time, Saxonwolf. For me it amounts to the same thing..."

Then maybe this is just a regional difference, Anglo, because to me, if anyone told me that a person was to be wary of, it meant, keep an eye on them, don't let your guard down, maybe even don't trust them.

If someone told me a person was someone to be worried about running into, it usually meant things would get very unpleasant.

Like I said, just one of those quirks of the English language.

There's no animosity Paul, this is just an ongoing theme for many years now.

There is no question that the whole question of shooting and being "Hard Men," as this topic is titled, centred around the Wigan wrestlers. But there's no place for that stuff in a pro ring. They seemed to take it far more seriously, and as a result your Ryss, Dempsey, B. Joyce, Foley etc almost blurred into one.

The southern approach seemed seldom if ever for shooting "etc" to be of any relevance. But that shouldn't disguise that perhaps some of those Southerners listed and others could do the shooting thing. In fact it was probably forbidden by Jack Dale; whilst perhaps encouraged by Billy Riley and his associated promoters.

I see you mention the wary/worry distinction for the second time, Saxonwolf. For me it amounts to the same thing.

Keith Martinelli seems a fair example. We've heard about him for years and Eddie's latest consolidates his profile. Took things to extremes in the ring. Unnecessarily. What drove him to do that?

But it's interesting to note that, in spite of a longish career, I don't believe he was ever engaged by Dale Martins. Loose cannon.

(Main Mask is now searching for Keith Martinelli on a DM bill ... and will probably find one!)

It wasn't Northern bias, Anglo, you said "...Which of the Southern-based wrestlers gave the Wigan wrestlers most to worry about...", and all I said was they wouldn't be worried, but they would be "wary" of (in other words, showing respect to your opponent). To me, worry, sounds like someone you are frightened of, and that just doesn't seem to sit right with all the things we know about certain wrestlers.

Everything I ever read about or heard mention about the Wigan lads were that they were well trained, in fact you could argue "the best trained", to deal with any situation. It was why Rileys was sought out as a "finishing school" (for want of a better term) for people who could already Wrestle and wanted to add the final touches.

When you completed your education at that type of gym/school (wherever it is located), you are ready for anything.

Northern bias not come across that on here,every guy you mention Anglo was a fine wrestler and could get a little tasty as the occasion demanded,but I disagree with your comment that they just got on with it, in two in particular prided themselves on letting the opponent know who was the better man.The foreign lads were domiciled in London as all not from these shores know it to be the first city,whereas everyone else knows it's Manchester.Who brought these men to the UK not always dales,had the heard of a world famous gym in Surbiton nah,the lure of a pie uncle Joe's and new skills lured them to the north.My heads hurting now with all this animosity.

We've been discussing for, well decades now, the Northern bias, edge and ego. Just getting a bit silly here.

The likes of Judo Al Hayes, Mike Marino, Billy Howes, Joe Murphy, Harry Kendall, Dave Bond, Caswell Martin, Johnny Kincaid, Chris Bailey and scores more could all get "tasty in the groin" if they wanted. But the Southerners were mercifully free of any pretence that pro wrestling was real or competitive. They got in and got on with it on a nightly basis, also alongside scores of proper international talent domiciled in the South rather than the north: Gordienko, Szakacs, da Silva, Boscik, The Outlaw, Zaranoff .....

Someone still needs to recover from the piledriver ....

Thanks Saxo.By the way I enjoy your "on this day" snippets of information about "Our Chaps",Keep it up please.

Wasn't Bert Assirati from darn sarf ? Surely he would be someone to "worry" about even for the "pie eaters"

Excellent Eddie agree so much about Keith hard as nails relentless and didn't mellow with age.John Foley hard to hurt ,Jack Fallon agonising Grovit,Jack Dempsey pride skill but ruthless.Couple that may surprise Ivan Pencecoff and Palace.

Which of the Southern-based wrestlers gave the Wigan wrestlers most to worry about?

Great stuff Eddie. Like the bit about Bob Sherry, typically him!

Cheers & keep well.

Great, I got a billboard made up with martinelli name on if it's the same wrestler. Getting to read about the wrestlers is fantastic.

Thanks Eddie,hope you are keeping well

Brilliant stuff, thanks Eddie. While professional wrestling is built on co-operation between two grapplers, it is a constant source of query as to who were the tough men, in what was purported to be a tough (real) sport.