This topic has been edited to retain only relevant posts. Please stay on topic and do not make personal comments about other contributors.
leonard.frank1
8/08/2020
Hidden wrestling footage.
I know there’s certainly some wrestling video that hasn’t come to light as yet, but how much is actually known about or rumoured to be laying unloved on a dusty shelf somewhere?
Bartelli v Nagasaki?
Pallo v McManus
The infamous McManus v Peter Preston anomaly (it means oddity Matey Dave)
Some decent Hells Angels footage?
Maybe some Jim Hussey gems
I can dream can’t I.
ohtani's jacket
09/08/2020
The ITV Sports Archive has begun digitizing a lot of its footage. I'm not sure if they have any footage from the 50s, but they definitely have plenty of footage from the 60s. Acquiring footage from the archive is expensive. Pallo vs. McManus from Cup Final day exists. I haven't seen any evidence that the other matches are in circulation. I do know there is an Adrian Street match from the 60s out there.
leonard.frank1
09/08/2020
Those two sound awesome. Fingers crossed this stuff and more gets found and saved before the tapes disintegrate and become dust .
grahambrookjazz
09/08/2020
I recall attending a Bartelli/Nagasaki match in the early seventies from The Wryton Stadium, Bolton, which was being filmed for TV. On another TV taping from Wryton Stadium, I recall The Hell's Angels wrestling against the father/son team of Les Kellett/Dave Barrie and also recall seeing a TV encounter between Hell's Angels and Borg Twins which went cats.
I recall seeing three Jimmy Hussey bouts on TV towards the end of his career as he faced Sean Regan, Les Kellett and Ray Glendenning. The Glendenning encounter was from De Montfort Hall, Leicester, with Hussey losing in what I believe was his final TV appearance.
leonard.frank1
09/08/2020
Your memory is outstanding Mate. I struggle to remember what I had for dinner yesterday! I guess the question is did they wipe and re-use the tape, or does it lay somewhere just waiting for someone to find it and transfer it to digital. Not sure how much importance would be put on wrestling from 40 - 50 years ago or how many fan there are like us.
grahambrookjazz
09/08/2020
In my case it really is memory as I have thrown away much of my wrestling paraphernalia over the years, including posters and programmes from my own promotions. There are contributors on this site who have exact details of the TV tapings from this era who will be even more useful to you than I can ever be. Whether they come forward or not is a different matter.
The Ost
09/08/2020
The ITV Archive states they have wrestling footage from 1961 to 1988.
mateydave
09/08/2020
it might be worth noting that a lot of ITV archive material got destroyed by water in Perivale many moons ago. 16mm telerecording of the wrestling were syndicated all over the world by ITC. if it moved, somebody will show it.
(Post edited)
ohtani's jacket
10/08/2020
Trust me, the footage exists. The problem is the cost. If they start allowing people access to the digital archives, you will see more of the matches. If not, they will remain in the hands of private collectors. Personally, I would happily pay a monthly theme to have access to the digital archive, but ITV don't appear to be at that stage yet. The French are well ahead of them in providing access to their archival footage, hence all the footage that's popping up.
Hussey had some matches on TV in 1970 and '71. I am 100 percent sure those are in the archive. He had a lot of matches on TV in the late 60s and they definitely have a lot of footage from '67 onward, so there's a good chance that they have those too.
I would say they absolutely have the Hell's Angels matches from the late 60s and 70s as well. But at this stage it would cost a few hundred pounds to obtain them.
The best thing about the archives is that they have the master tapes. Most bouts were edited for TV, so you get the full bout. You also hear the pre-recording banter between Walton and his director, and the MC warming up the crowd. The occasional "off air" opinion from Walton too. I remember one match where he asks someone to get a drink for him, and another match where he comments on some woman who brings homemade gifts for the wrestlers.
Peter
11/08/2020
Do not understand why ITV is so reluctant to release what is available
mateydave
11/08/2020
because the chances are it is lost or been damaged......
ohtani's jacket
11/08/2020
They want to make money from it. Right now, they charge you an expensive fee for researching what they have in the archives (e.g. Hussey matches.) I believe they waive that fee if they find what you requested, but they still charge you a hefty fee for the matches. Even the basic duplication fee is expensive. I guess they feel like their archival material has a certain value as opposed to what they could earn from a massive subscription service. I really have no idea. I don't think their approach is particularly modern. But the footage hasn't been lost or damaged.
mateydave
11/08/2020
there has been a lot of damage to 16 mm telercordings and my lips are sealed as to what happened to many 2" quad tapes
SaxonWolf
11/08/2020
I feel sure I read that a few years ago, Vince McMahon of WWF/WWE fame tried to buy all the archive footage that ITV had and the prices was too high. It's not that he couldn't afford it, but that he didn't want to pay over the odds and be ripped off.
ohtani's jacket
11/08/2020
The WWF hoarding the footage and only releasing matches of old WWF wrestlers would have been the worst thing ever.
Mad Mac
12/08/2020
WWE wants outright ownership, but ITV wants to “license” it. That’s the impasse.
The Ost
12/08/2020
It's certainly the old-fashioned approach, as TV studios used to take.
An accessing fee and a digitising fee, adding up to more than most are willing to pay for. It's the same down here in NZ.
I agree the French are doing a good job of providing access to lots of their old footage, including wrestling.
Powerlock
12/08/2020
I can remember watching Mike Eagers in fact he was certainly a popular wrestler on tv but haven't been able to find any of his bouts , another wrestlers whose legacy is rotting away in ITV archives.
DjMask
13/08/2020
Prior to COVID The British Film Institue (BFI) archive seemed to have some ITV wrestling bouts available to view at their London HQ. One of which is the Rikki Starr-Steve Haggerty bout from 1973 which was shown in the short lived Thursday lunch time slot on ITV.
John M
13/08/2020
I really hope that some of these many missing older bouts do appear. There are so many that I would love to see (McManus v Pallo, Nagasaki v Howes, a tag match involving the Hells Angels etc). However, in the late 90's I was thinking that I would never again see any of the bouts that I had seen when I was young. The bouts that have already appeared and are available on YouTube or on DVD's are far more than I had hoped for in my wildest dreams. If some of these missing older bouts do appear it would be fantastic but we should be grateful for what we already have.
RON HISTORYO....Time Cop,
13/08/2020
Top of my list , Albert Wall.
Had some good bouts with Davies.
Peter
13/08/2020
Had a thread on here some years ago listing all the wrestlers with no matches on the internet. Subsequently the list has become shorter but still too long.Hope ITV will reduce the asking price or even show some of the black and white matches late at night
Powerlock
13/08/2020
Possibly the easiest way for ITV to make them available would be to make them available to download at a similar price to music tracks , this way they would generate money without too much effort and we could build up our collections gradually without bursting the bank. This would have a worldwide appeal to fans everywhere.
The Ost
13/08/2020
The footage might look better now than it did on those old TV sets.
mateydave
13/08/2020
lets be really controversial shall we. remember ITV is a business with shareholders. how much do you think it would cost to digitise a 20 minute bout factoring in staff costs etc.
if ITV was to put up a subscription service and make available how much would they charge. you have already seen what has happened with all the VHS off air recordings that were made. most have made their way onto youtube were you can view for free.
BUT and this is a very BIG BUT we have a situation of some making a living by selling DVD compilation of this recording which are pirate copies. they are illegal and just because you have paid for them does not make the DVDs you buy legal. the buyers are just as guilty as person infringing the copyright. both are committing a criminal offence
WHY SHOULD ITV GO TO EXPENSE OF DIGITISING SO SCURRILOUS TYPES CAN STEAL THE MATERIAL AND SELL COPIES ILLEGALLY
The Ost
13/08/2020
the footage can be embedded in a way that makes it difficult to download and then spread around. Or the version that can be downloaded is of much lower quality.
ohtani's jacket
13/08/2020
It's a matter of whether they want to make money off their footage (wrestling or otherwise.) We know they are digitizing the footage, but right now their focus is on licensing it for academic or commercial purposes. There are some private sales, but mostly that is their focus. Perhaps they don't see a market for a subscription service, or perhaps it's not cost effective. It's a small team (only a handful of people.) About five years ago, the Chicago Film Archive put a 100 or so matches on YouTube and recently people have been sponsoring additional uploads. I am sure people here would pay money to have the digitized footage put on a YouTube channel or offered through some other platform. I think the cheapest transfer option was 40 pounds per hour (plus expenses.) That's still a lot, but people could chip in. If you allow people to pay for access to the archive then yes, some folks will rip the matches and share them illegally, but the sponsorship method could work if they are willing to set up a platform.
leonard.frank1
13/08/2020
Scurrilous? Most of what he sells isn't even copyrighted, he's just a wrestling fan sharing what he owns and bearly covering his costs.
(post edited)
Why are ITV so precious about black and white era matches but seem fine with 1971 onwards matches been available