Kellett, Rann, McManus - Payback Conspiracy?

I enjoyed Rann’s matches on the t.v. I only saw him live once, I think it was at the Fairfield Hall and it might have been against one of the LaPaques, but not sure. What I do remember about the contest was when Rann’s opponent was down on his knees and Peter was standing over him, Peter bent down to go on the offense and the opponent reached up and accidentally caught Peter’s face with what must have been a long or broken finger nail, as a cut appeared just under the ‘Camden’s’ mans’ eye. It became obvious that Peter took umbrage and gave his opponent a few ‘receipts’ before getting back to the entertainment. Interesting character, probably one of those people who could have made a good friend or neighbor, but not someone you’d want to cross swords with.

I first saw them in 1968 when their feud was rife. A one-one draw in Tooting. But no slipping or headbutts.

They kept it off tv, so you could well be right DavisDavid5 that they trotted out their routines intensively around the country 1968 and 1969.

As quickly as Kellett v McManus had started, it just stopped in the seventies.

I saw McManus v Kellett twice in Leeds in the early 1970's.In the first bout Kellett "slipped" entering the ring and "banged his head" on the steps.He spent the bout wandering around the ring groggy whilst McManus repeatedly head butted him.McManus "won".A month later they had the inevitable revenge match,which Kellet won. Presumably they used this script all around the country.

Thanks Main Mask. Here we go everybody:

All sorts of comments about the evil of Rann, the potential evil of Rann; how he was unliked. All sorts.

But this is pro wrestling. He seems to have had a 20+ year career and done the biz in the groin. Apart from a bit of arrogance, not a sign of any bout getting out of hand ....

.......... except for the Kellett "feud" which is where this thread started.

He had his Southern England Middleweight title for many years, but the Kellett thing overshadows everything.

By the way did he ever WIN and did he ever LOSE his Southern England title? It just seemed part of him ...

Without reading them all again, I don't think Rann came out smelling of roses in Adrian Street's books.

The question of why he lived in London so long, but retired up in Blackpool, rather than the south coast, which is much closer?, maybe he upset a few too many people over the years?, sort of a "don't upset people when you are on your way up, because you have to meet them again on your way down".

In the McManus book there is some detail about Rann's house, life outside wrestling etc. He had a garage that his wife used as an exercise studio.

Glad to hear he had some friends within wrestling, all i've talked to haven't had anything positive to say about him. It can be a lonely business.

i seem to recall a number of them lived in houseboats moored at Chiswick. Terry Rudge, Spencer Churchill ... I wonder if Derek was part of that set? Maybe he owned the boats?

I bet if we studied Ramm's results we'd find periods of inactivity when he was inside.

Peter Rann

So true Anglo.One interesting fact about "Derek" as we now call him. He was often billed as hailing from Camden Town, where he well may have lived when he first moved to London from Doncaster, but he actually lived for many years in the richest borough in the country- Kensington. He later moved to another very affluent area- Chiswick. This makes the move back North to Blackpool all the more fascinating.

I wonder if we can classify Peter Rann as the most wealthy wrestler of his era. Of course the bulk of his wealth did not emanate from wrestling.

(I wouldn't be writing these things if he were still alive ...!)

Hi Saxonwolf.

"Jim Moran knocking on your door, yes, but Peter Rann?"

My image is that Peter Rann would have been there with a flick-knife.

Thanks so much for that, Paul.

So even where you had not great bouts with Derek, it wasn't as if he wanted to take it all seriously and start shooting?

I mean, this seemed to be a madman OUTSIDE the ring, but in it he was professional and compliant?

Well for what's it's worth I tended to judge by first impressions not reputation and also noted which workers liked or disliked. Rann wasn't on many Christmas card list Les really didn't like him another who shared similar feelings was Bill Howes. Was on my list several times but only a couple of bouts,where he initially showcased a couple of amateur moves,then harder approach.Not great bouts.Think it was Bournemouth where he tried casually chat about Manchester clubs and I asked why was several Wryton bouts were no shows,got a shrug and a grin.Blackpool would make sense Layton cemetery full of Londonders. I told him about the quality gangs enjoyment of wrestling and got blank look.

".... I remember dear Lou Ravelle telling us how they all used to hang out at the Mandrake Club behind Charing Cross station: ...."

Funnily enough Anglo, I was reading a book on a beach a few weeks back, the autobiography of Steve Jones, guitarist in the Sex Pistols, and he mentioned in the book that John Lydon (or "Johnny Rotten" as he was called back in the 70's), his dad used to be the manager of a club in London that Wrestlers used to go in, could this be the same place?

Thanks Ballymoss.

One other key fact about Rann: he had blue hair! I remember we always found this fascinating when we watched him live.

Maybe the thing opens out to a wrestler's lifestyle in general. It seems like the natty dresser Rann would have slipped seamlessly into the swinging sixties scene, with the glamour and travel of wrestling and a Soho nightlife as enjoyed by many others in the Paul Lincoln clan.

I remember dear Lou Ravelle telling us how they all used to hang out at the Mandrake Club behind Charing Cross station: that would be some place to research!

Maybe the London scene could mirror Wigan in its own way. All these welterweights like Capelli, Murphy, Rann, Salvo, Caulder regularly opposing each other - it was all theatre, wasn't it? I mean ALL. No space in the ring for letting your nasty side out. You were workmates. In fact it was all a beautiful work of art...but here we all are repeatedly getting drawn into some sense of competitiveness that just wasn't there (mostly☺). From this pool, McManus and Pallo rose up, without necessarily being the best technically, but by having those extra acting skills that Capelli and Rann would never have aspired to.

If Paul M is still here, and we always greatly value your insights, did you ever wrestle Derek?

And getting us back on track, Paul, 1972 was your time - were you aware of any real Kellett-Rann animosity? Your confirmation that Derek wasn't liked would instantly fit with Kellett who could apparently take a dislike to someone at the drop of a hat and then take this into the ring.

Rann defeated Kellett on tv. That shouldn't have happened. There must be something in this.

Rann was always a bad un , he was a Borstal Boy and in the papers with bad repute as early as 1954

I never cease to be amazed what can be gleaned from this wonderful forum. Thanks to the sagacity of Anglo and the detective skills of Ron H, and others, I know a great deal more concerning Peter Rann, or should I say Peter Derek Ramm, the great enigma of wrestling. The fact that he was wrestling at the age of 18, and two years later tackling McManus, is testiment to the high regard in which he must have been held by Dale Martin. As he was reported to have been sent to prison, I wonder if this was before he became a professional wrestler or during his career.

Because of his association with Rachman and Raymond Nakachian (aka Nash) he became a rich man yet continued wrestling and I think Anglo is right, he did this to prove he had a legitimate source of income, and using the name Rann, may have confused the tax man. The move from Kensington and later Chiswick, where I often saw him, to Blackpool is more of a mystery. It was quite a change leaving London. Of course it could be for family reasons, he may have spent his money and decided to "down size", the tax authorities may have caught up with him, or London just got too "hot" ,particularly after closely working for such a notorious character like Nash. It would be interesting to know.

Incidentally one wrestler Rann was always wary of was "Iron Jaw" Joe Murphy, who like Rann was something of an enigma. One for Anglo and Ron H!

Yes Mac, I think you are correct with that.

Wasn’t Rann originally from Doncaster? I thought I’d read something to that effect a while back.

I have to say, as someone who has competed in MMA, Tae Kwon Do, Submission Wrestling, Kick Boxing and (in my much younger days) worked on night club doors, I would be amazed if anyone with my background would be intimidated in the slightest by Peter Rann, or anyone of a similar size and build.

Jim Moran knocking on your door, yes, but Peter Rann?

I can only imagine he intimidated young people and women.

He was far from popular in dressing rooms, he actually answered to Derek with friends outside the game,mates with Norbert said it all,amateur experience

We have discussed him before a good while back.

https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/wrestling-in-a-prison

I would hardly say Rann was popular within the wrestling fraternity. If anything, the opposite.

Not to take away anything from his ability though.

God help your next door neighbours, Ron! Incredible knowledge.

Please don't mention Spaghetti

Believe it or not his real name was RAMM

Maybe he needed a legit side for the taxman to explain his existence, Ballymoss? This rather reverses what we think about various wrestlers avoiding tax ...

If you remove the middle letters of Rachman ....

And even your Raymond Nash - both names look like they could be tinkered with to make Rann.

Could Peter Rann have been his real name?

Thank you Ron for a fascinating poster. I think this is before Peter Rann became infamous for his non wrestling activities.

Must have met many times in Rann's earlier days when his weight was lower.

two examples.

I find it fascinating that Peter Rain is involved in this discussion. He was an extremely hard man and outside the wrestling ring, I wonder if Kellett or McManus would want to be associated with him. As one of the leading henchman to the notorious slum landlord Peter Rachman, he is reputed to have made a considerable amount of money from some highly questionable activities. Also he was believed to have been involved with one Raymond Nash, a rather shady operator of clubs and casinos.This rather begs the question why he continued wrestling for what would have been considerably less financial reward.

I would he interested to know if Peter Rann ever wrestled Mick McManus. Outside the ring there would surely be only one winner!

Yes, he was one of the original six Shining Stars on this site, Graham, in his profile "A Tough Nut To Crack."

That's what made me think that, if McManus was choosing someone to double-cross Kellett, someone like Rann would be the one. A Czeslaw or Stuart just wouldn't have worked.

In defence of this conspiracy theory, I do not believe that Rann would, at that time, have been booked to defeat Kellett on tv. So the result is a surprise at the very least.

I remember reading that Peter Rann was indeed a genuine hard man of the squared circle.

Thanks gents.

Yes, Main Mask, a great top of the bill in 1969 and no doubt what attracted dad to take us to see them the year before (with Nagasaki right down the card).

The Ost's finding on Father's Day 1975 in Brighton comes as a surprise, as it explodes my theory. Never mind.

Two awkward, uncooperative, egotistical and cranky old timers with limited movement still making it work on a nightly basis in 1975 aged about 120 collectively. Lovely.

Promotions wise, they kept this OFF the small screen. Cleverly, every venue must have thought they had a real scoop.

There must be soooo much we don't understand .....

Just found the Poster-PAVILION MAIN HALL BUXTON-WEDNESDAY 26TH FEBRUARY

LES KELLETT vs. MICK MCMANUS-Top of the Bill

STEVE LOGAN vs. ROY ST.CLAIR on same Bill

The Year for this one......1969

MAIN MASK

Last time I could find them matched together:

March 19th, 1975: BRIGHTON; McManus bt Kellett-DISQ

Last time I could find them on the same show:

July 31st 1975: CRAWLEY(TV); Kellett kod Stuart; McManus bt Best;

Great detail. as ever, Ron.

But wrestling has a long history of forgiving and forgetting (except regarding Peter Preston☺)

Sometimes the rebels came back in stronger positions: Joe D'Orazio, Mike Marino, Dr Death, Ray Hunter, Al Hayes.

Looks to me like Peter Rann had his Southern England title bestowed on him for life.

But Mick avoided him in the ring, I think.

Maybe Rann secured from Jack Dale what he wanted and felt loyalty as a result? Would make sense.

Meanwhile, Main Mask supplies a poster virtually identical to mine from that dizzy summer of '72 when it was all kicking off on tv and live at so many of our halls:

McManus and Rann were so different. Mick being management and Rann being a spokes person for the newly formed Wrestlers Union in 1970. Fees were £6 - £13 a bout and £20 for a TV bout.

A Wrestlers Strike won a £1 rise and minimum of £40 for a TV bout.

The venues affected by the strike were all Dale Martins and the negotiation was with Jack Dale.

The wrestlers were after £2 rise and £60 for TV.

Thanks Ron.

Certainly Kellett and McManus were very frequent opponents. After McManus v Pallo III in 1967, a Kellett-McManus feud was set up which ran all through 1968, all over the place. I think their weights were fine - McManus drew with Quasimodo at the Royal Albert Hall - two stones heavier than Kellett. And I saw him defeat a very chunky Bulldog Joynson.

In your poster above, and in mine from 1972 - which I just can't find now - it's clear that Kellett and Rann were doing the rounds. Their tv bouts will have filled the arenas.

My theory is that Les, who liked a good "scrap", will have respected Rann and moved on. They will have made their peace. McManus had a quite different approach, centred around himself.

In any case, Rann and Kellett were not the promoters, didn't have Mick's power of the pen - and just had to get on with it.

Of course we have to add into the mix any dressing room squabbles and who knows what else. Not many Rann v McManus bouts around, either. Mick clearly didn't fancy trusting the Pinkie Brown of the ring.

I just can't get away from the parallels and the fact that Les was gone 18 months later.

All sorts must have been going on behind the scenes.

Clearly possible that Kellett v Rann was just a great and very hard work. But If McManus v Kellett stops straight after it, maybe this is a sign that there was a real revenge double-cross.

I would agree Anglo that unlikely to find Kellett V Mick so late and I had not thought of them being opponents as Kellett would have been considerably heavier and a much tougher worker.

I have an example of Kellett and Rann though in mid 74 in a Dale Martin ring.