The original post and contributions remain below; but let's keep the latest list at the very top now and update today, 25th November 2023, with the insertion of Dave Finlay Senior:
1933 Dave Cameron - a visitor
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1934 Bob Sweeney
1935 Horst Hoffman - a visitor
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
6.4.36 Dave Finlay Senior
1937 Bob Anthony
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1939 Bobby Barnes
1939 Mark Wayne
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Mel Stuart
We still need to investigate
Barry Douglas
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive but could be right up there at the top
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton - Possibly 1942
Peter Kaye
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
Update of 7th April 2024 at the passings of Barry Douglas, Dwight J Ingleburgh
1933 Dave Cameron - a visitor
1933 Dave Finlay Senior
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1934 Bob Sweeney
1935 Horst Hoffman - a visitor
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
1937 Bob Anthony - a Kamikaze still outwitting us in 2024
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1939 Bobby Barnes
1939 Mark Wayne
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Mel Stuart
We still need to investigate
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive but could be right up there at the top
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton - Possibly 1942
Peter Kaye definitely alive April 2024, we need his birth date from his daughter-in-law.
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
Pinned at the top we have the two threads listing our Living Greats.
Below I copy the latest list of living fifties greats. Any ideas as to sequencing them age-wise?
Update of 21st August 2022 at the passing of Bert Royal
Bob Anthony
Bobby Barnes
Jim Breaks
Jon Cortez
Spencer Churchill.
Brian Crabtree
Max Crabtree
Barry Douglas
Seamus Dunleavy
Ray Fury
Horst Hoffmann
Dwight J Ingleburgh
Gori Ed Mangotich
Al Miquet
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle
Judo Pete Roberts
Blackburn Roberts
Johnny Saint
Tony Scarlo
Lee Scott
Roy St Clair
Dean Stockton
Adrian Street Esq.
Bob Sweeney
Billy Two Rivers
Uncertain whether active in the 50s
Jim Green (The Monster)
Peter Kaye
Sean Regan
Uncertain whether still alive
Bobo Matu
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
I visited with Dave Cameron on Friday.
I emailed Lee Scott's son a few weeks ago to ask how his dad was and have not received a reply.
I thought we had established Dave Finlay Senior as having been born in 1936?
Barry Douglas can, regrettably, now be removed from the list.
Perhaps this thread is the one that should be pinned.
This list unfortunately requires further updating following the demise of Jim Breaks and Dwight Ingelburgh
For Mad Mac: Dave Finlay Sr was added here a few weeks ago.
Dave Fit Finlay is now almost 66 and I believe his dad Dave Finlay senior is still alive.
Now Dave senior started in 1963 after a long amateur career and I have read in one article he was age 30.
He was married by 1957 when he and his wife went to Canada and they came back in 1961.
But another anomaly is that he says he lost an eye age 8 towards the end of the war.
So date of birth 1933 or possibly later.
I am unsure if Dave ever wrestled in England. But does that matter. Northern Ireland is UK.
Just found Dave Finlays Canada details. Born 6th April 1936.
He is one of the oldest.
The passing of Gori Ed Mangotich allows a moment to revisit this important list.
It seems clear that Dwight J Ingleburgh is now the longest living wrestler of those we all saw regularly.
I fear this list may have many sad inaccuracies.
Update of 6th November 2023 at the passing of Gori Ed Mangotich
1933 Dave Cameron - a visitor
1933 Dwight J Ingleburgh
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1934 Bob Sweeney
1935 Horst Hoffman - a visitor
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
1937 Jim Breaks
1937 Bob Anthony
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1939 Bobby Barnes
1939 Mark Wayne
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Mel Stuart
We still need to investigate
Barry Douglas
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive but could be right up there at the top
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton - Possibly 1942
Peter Kaye
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
The list below is already shortening with the news about Seamus and Billy Two Rivers
We have an update on Gori Ed Mangotich, but nothing definite. He stopped going to the luncheon club he attended in Mitcham at the outbreak of Covid and has not returned. But that is true of many of the members of course, so basically we are no further on, he may well be amongst our living greats.
I have found a Business report of a company of which he was a Director (dissolved 1992) and this gives a date of birth of December, 1922 (EDIT: Should read 1932) . A ships passenger list of 1957 states a date of birth of 11th December, 1922, (EDIT; Should read 19320 which would make him older than both Max Crabtree and Sam Betts.
Another snippet I've just come across is that a witness at Edwin Reid's wedding in 1958 was a G. De Jager.
The sad news reported by BKendo of Spencer Churchill's death and Ron's discovery about Bobo Matu is shortening our list. Still no news of Gori Ed Mangotich. We do have two new entries of Mark Wayne in 1939 and Bob Sweeney in 1934.
1925 Mohammed Yakub - a visitor
1926 Syed Saif Shah - Believed to be in Pakistan. Alive according to wrestlingdata.com but then they might just not have up to date information. A problem of including overseas wrestlers.
1932 Gori Ed Mangotich - Unsure if he's alive
1933 Dave Cameron - a visitor
1933 Max Crabtree
1933 Dwight J Ingleburgh
1934 Seamus Dunleavy
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1934 Bob Sweeney
1935 Billy Two Rivers - a visitor
1935 Horst Hoffman - a visitor
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
1937 Jim Breaks
1937 Bob Anthony
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1939 Bobby Barnes
1939 Mark Wayne
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Adrian Street Esq
1940 Mel Stuart
We still need to investigate
Barry Douglas
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive but could be right up there at the top
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton - Possibly 1942
Jim Green (The Monster) - Believed to have died
Peter Kaye
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
With Spencer now gone before we could ever crown him properly, we move into a Dark Age of uncertainty.
Wondering whether Bobo and Gori Ed are still alive?
Fascinating how we discuss the completed history of fifty, sixty and seventy years ago yet the tectonic plates of the present days continue to unfoot us and keep us on our toes as we strive to maintain links with those glory days.
RON HISTORYO....Time Cop,53m
I have just had an intense look at Dave Shirland/Bobo Matu of Bolton and now believe he was born David Crossman born 16th October 1932 and died 9th October 2020 under the same name. (BOLTON) Looks to me like his Grandfather was from Barbadoes and married an English woman from Rochdale. The Grandfather was a Shirland. The Crossman /Shirland link is a bit hazy and no marriage to cement this up , but Dave's mother Hannah Crossman has a Shirland link on some documents and was married at least twice. To work all this out I started with a clue from The Whose Who of Wrestling , where it was stated in 1971 that he had a wife Enid and 10 year old daughter Bernadette. Sure enough David Crossman married Enid Dolan in Bolton in 1959 and Bernadette was born 1961.
The Time Cop has done it again. Sometimes you must surprise yourself Ron.
To my mind this is an important topic and we shouldn't let it drift away until we reach a satisfactory conclusion.
We have a step forward with confirmation from Bobby Barnes that he was born in 1939. We also had a response regarding Gori Ed Mangotich from someone saying they would try and find out more. This leaves the current 1940 and earlier standings as
1925 Mohammed Yakub
1926 Syed Saif Shah - Believed to be in Pakistan. Alive according to wrestlingdata.com but then they might just not have up to date information. A problem of including overseas wrestlers.
1929 Spencer Churchill
1932 Bobo Matu - Unsure if he's alive
1932 Gori Ed Mangotich - Unsure if he's alive
1933 Dave Cameron
1933 Max Crabtree
1933 Dwight J Ingleburgh
1934 Seamus Dunleavy
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1935 Billy Two Rivers
1935 Horst Hoffman
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
1937 Jim Breaks
1937 Bob Anthony
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1939 Bobby Barnes
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Adrian Street Esq
1940 Mel Stuart
Not yet known
Bobby Barnes - Ron suspects 1939
Barry Douglas
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton
Bob Sweeney
Jim Green (The Monster) - Believed to have died
Peter Kaye
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
There's still a long way to go but looking at Anglo Italian's original list and other's born 1940 and earlier my latest offering is
1925 Mohammed Yakub
1926 Syed Saif Shah - Believed to be in Pakistan. Alive according to wrestlingdata.com but then they might just not have up to date information. A problem of including overseas wrestlers.
1929 Spencer Churchill
1932 Bobo Matu - Unsure if he's alive
1932 Gori Ed Mangotich - Unsure if he's alive
1933 Dave Cameron
1933 Max Crabtree
1933 Dwight J Ingleburgh
1934 Seamus Dunleavy
1934 Lee Scott
1934 Don Robinson
1935 Billy Two Rivers
1935 Horst Hoffman
1935 Blackburn Roberts
1936 Linde Caulder
1936 Bob Kirkwood
1936 Sean Regan
1937 Jim Breaks
1937 Bob Anthony
1937 Tony Scarlo
1937 Alan Serjeant
1938 Brian Crabtree
1938 Brian Maxine
1939 John Cox
1940 Jon Cortez
1940 Tony Costas
1940 Maurice Hunter
1940 Al Miquet
1940 Adrian Street Esq
1940 Mel Stuart
Not yet known
Bobby Barnes - Ron suspects 1939
Barry Douglas
Ray Fury
Al Nicol
Lou Ravelle - Unsure if he's alive
Judo Pete Roberts
Dean Stockton
Bob Sweeney
Jim Green (The Monster) - Believed to have died
Peter Kaye
Joe Murphy
Gordon Smith
Also on Anglo Italian's list
1941 Johnny Saint
1942 Roy St Clair
Some good ones sneaking in and I've checked Breaks and he is 1937.
Can't check Pete Roberts with any certainty.
Think Bobby Barnes is 1939 but can't be sure.
Judo Pete Roberts always - still - looks so young, it almost seems insulting to be considering him for this list. But you are quite right, Mad Mac, along with Maxine and Viedor and Caswell he will probably enter the listing in a support role.
Welcome back from Qatar, Hack.
You have introduced Mohammed Yakub, and good on him wherever he is! I have an idea how we can handle his non-dom status when we produce the full list at Christmas.
For now we have to get to grips with Big Bill Verna.
I think we reckoned Pete Roberts would be 80-ish two or three years ago, might he be a 1930s candidate?
I've been away for the past week hence being quiet about this.It's a worthwhile quest, but is going to take a lot of slogging if we are serious about it.
Including overseas visitors opens up a new kettle of fish, but 97 year old Mohammed Yakub (23/11/1925) looks like the front runner to me.
If we are looking for our new Father of Wrestling let's rule out visitors. Spencer Churchill looks like a good bet at the moment, but we need to do a lot more leg work.
Bob Anthony - pretty confident on 1937, but no date.
Bobby Barnes - Don't know, but one of our members does. I've asked if Bob is happy sharing this information.Can't see him beating Spencer Churchill or some of theothers.
Jim Breaks In June 2020 the Daily Mail said Breaks was 83, which would make him around 85 now. Born 1937 ish . Well, if it's in the Daily Mail what else could we want?
Jon Cortez Pretty sure he was early 1940s. He could make life easier by just telling us.
Spencer Churchill. May 1929
Brian Crabtree 1938
Max Crabtree 1933
Jimmy Devlin 7th April 1942