I hesitate to start this thread,don't want to ruin matey Dave's day,I'm interested who fans thought Kendos best opponent for skill excitement and heat. I have a top five ill give 2345 and gurantee my top spot wont be guessed but then again knowledge on here amazes me so I might be wrong. Very much based on opinions. Number 5 mike Marino number4 Albert Wall number 3Gwynn Davies number 2 Billy Howes.looking forward to your thoughts
Hi Paul. Wouldn't disagree with Wall Davies or Howes. From what I saw I'd add Mal Kirk and Bruno Elrington into the mix. Saw Nagasaki v Elrington in Worthing once when I was a second. It was a cracking contest. In fairness I'd add an honourable mention to Steve Veidor who also featured often v Nagasaki on the south coast and the crowd seemed to love that match up too
The best match I saw with Nagasaki was against Albert Wall, so would go with him. Billy Howes was also an unpredictable opponents. Would have loved to see Nagasaki against Robinson.
Definitely Albert Wall, but also Gwyn Davies along with Pat Roach were among the best I saw Kendo face. Only saw him face Bill Howes once, and was disappointed, early finish with a straight fingered jab to the throat ended it in Kendos favour..
In later years, Mark Rocco. Early years, all the guys mentioned above and seem to recall a good match against Steve Veidor.
I only started watching wrestling in 1977 but in those times I thought that Marty Jones was a very good opponent for Kendo, as he looked good enough to possibly beat him.
Firstly , what a great idea for a thread and thanks to Paul for his opinion , always interested.
As I have said before , I followed a peak Kendo pretty far and despite seeing him live dozens of times I could name you so many wrestlers that I did not see him fight that I would pay today just to see footage.
However that is not the question. The other problem , is that what I saw was unbalanced as I saw him have multiple fights with the same opponent. Some were great bouts , then I saw them work a shocker.
In the main I hated him fighting lighter men.
So to answer the question I have to pick a particular bout to name his greatest matches for me.
The fantastic TV bout with Billy Howes tugging at his mask ( I think 1971) was repeated two or three times at Belle Vue including a Judo jacket match. These bouts with Howes were fantastic. However I note Frank Thomas's disappointment at an inferior effort. That's the problem.
I went to Winsford the night Kendo beat Crabtree and almost sure it was their first ever meeting.
Fantastic bout , should have lasted a bit longer but violent and decisive decision to Kendo. A poor small Hall did not spoil the occasion. I saw them in a shocker at Blackpool.
A peak Mucky Mal Kirk at Wryton , Bolton was the pick maybe of all with the place roaring. Well enacted with Kendo getting out of jail with two racks after a Kirk upside down bear hug had kendo almost beat.
Here is the strange thing , I went to Belle Vue 100 plus times. Apart from Bill Howes bouts , I enjoyed most of them but just cannot recall any particular highlight. Just one final thing though , unmasking the White Angel and fighting Masambula were awful. I want my money back.
A superb reply from Ron, who must be our Nagasaki expert. Though I think Paul Kaye could give you a run for your money. Paul is a modest Kendo aficiando who keeps his light under a bushel. Anyway Ron, these Howes matches. Did the mask come off in any of them? It's strange how a match could be repeated. One night fireworks and the next a dud.
The bouts with Lee Bronson, Pete Roberts and Rex Strong were all good solid scientific bouts for the first round or so.
Kendo vs Rocco was all about dark ultraviolence and pushing audiences beyond the snapping point.
Would really have liked to see Kendo vs Johnny Saint in a catchweight match. There's a very good tag match pitting Kendo and Dave Duran against Saint and Mickey Gold from 1993: Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETmVYbxPPuA Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA2ZVyxmZfY ;
Had a rather wierd discussion about this match with someone on FB recently - There's a great bit in that match at 3:48 of Part 2 where Kendo takes quite a considerable bump selling Saint's monkey climb. A few minutes later at 8:02, Saint dropkicks Kendo clean out of the ring. Anyway, the other half of the conversation (not a Naggers fan) insisted that by 1993 there was NO WAY Kendo would have been taking bumps and that even an older tag partner like Ian Wilson (who tagged with Kendo in Jan '93) would have to take all the bumps. So I posted that video timelinked to just where the monkey cliimb occurred to point out that Kendo COULD AND WOULD take bumps in '93. I initially got the silent treatment and then a throwing of toys from the pram from the other party. Hmmm, some Kendo haters will just bury their heads in the sand like ostriches rather than acknowledge hard (video) evidence that contradicts their bitchy fantasies. Sad really ...
I saw him against Albert Wall. Rocky Wall did not seem to try too hard to win. Same could be said for Mal Kirk. Wall won by a disqualification as Kendo could not be seen to be really beaten and neither could Wall as he was the champion. I am sure that Wall would have won "properly" had he been allowed to do so by the promoters.
Back in the early seventies you were lucky if you got a good shot of half of Kendo's face. That was all they were giving away.
When Shirley came there was the quick run from the ring that spoilt so many matches and I agree with the Albert Wall comment by Tom , I got them on the wrong night.
But seeing half of Kendo's face added to the excitement and at that stage we were not fully convinced yet that he was English.
Another good opponent was actually Haystacks who looked almost out on his feet taking a pounding in a corner , but Pat Roach did that one even better.
Circa 1972 it would have been ridiculous for Nagasaki to be in a ring with Rocco or Jones or McManus and Logan. They were all way too light and small for it to look effective.
As the years went by though Kendo went slower and younger guys became veterans and heavier.
Another decent scrap was Kendo and Bartelli without mask. A good one ebbed and flowed before Bartelli finally made the crucial mistake as was often the case with Howes.
Nagasaki was invariably in great bouts so all names count. He also had such a gimmick that brought the best out of his opponents.
Ane we know he wasn't a lazy worker so they all had to be on their toes.
Johnny Kincaid does a great job in the tv bout and wrestled Nagasaki heaps of times, also for the WWF title.
Yes to Bruno, yes to Viedor, definitely Pat Roach - and don't negelct Tibor who suffered so beautifully,
Rex Strong, another good call above.
I suppose to limit the list you'd have to consider only opponents who'd take the Kamikaze Roll.
Have we hit your Number One, Paul?
One memorable Nagasaki match I saw was at Preston against Steve Clements.It was just after Clements returned from Mexico and his weight must have gone up to 14 or 15 stones. You would have thought Steve would have been outclassed. Unfortunately he was. A ko for Kendo with a bloodied Clements laid out centre ring. The whole match looked real and violent.
Paul , you are a Salford lad , I think I can remember a couple who worked bouts where they got stuck into Naggers.
Peter Stewart and Les Thornton.
I'm a Salford lad, Ron!
You enter the area of what the other guys really thought about Nagasaki ...and that transcends professional wrestling.
If you thought it was real, that's great, Ron.
But it wasn't.
Just great work.
Good shout there ron Peter was fast and skillfull but not as hard hitting as Les both great lads, ill not give reasons yet why iv chosen top five.regarding Billy. Howes unpredictable was an understatement and theres more mystery about Billy than Nagasaki could ever dream up.i have total respect for Bartelli but his bouts not including the Hanley one weren't great in my opion because at that late stage Geoff developed the shal I punch him playing to the gallery that I knew from talking to regular fans didn't appreciate . Clue to my number one he was northern based.
You do surprise me, Paul!
Lee Sharron, then, A very generous worker.
Ray Steele????? Northern Chap.
Mind you Naggers versus Bridges wasn't bad
I think it has to be a an old vet who sold well to get Kendo up the ladder. I have a few in mind.
Jim Hussey , Streiger , Bull Davis , Jack Rowlands , Dave Shirland.
Northen based? Tony St. Clair?
Errrr no Anglo not the Other Jewish champion either,amazed you didn't think id pick a Dales man .
Saw Pat\Pete Curry give Kendo a few good tussles down the years perhaps?
I must throw in two others but switching county.
John Cox and Portz who he worked so well with in Stampede.
I wonder if Kendo ever encountered George Gordienko, who was the best wrestler I ever saw live.
So we're looking for a Dale Martin northerner.
You're probably applying nepotism, Paul, so I'll say Johnny South (the clue is in his surname ?)
Couldn't be John Lees.
Possibly Roy St. Clair - he had a few victories over KN....
if it is another dale martin man who was a son of abraham, must be john elijah
Sorry Anglo if i confused you ,I meant to say I find it hard to believe that I wouldn't pick a Dale Martin lad,however the guy in thinking did little if any work for dales.No not johnny South either good though he was.The man iM thinking of once once part of a controversial named tag team and his smaller team mate could wrestle a bit. More clues wrestled in bonnet in all red gear and held a non British title ,by the way he wrestled kendo with and without the mask.
More confusion I meant my choice wore a mask and wrestled without in different bouts with Nagasaki
In that case Paul I think it must be Jack Fallon who did the Destroyer two bouts at Hanley.
I am sure you are talking the peak Nagasaki and not the later model.
Like the Bartelli bout the destroyer one was advertised as far away as Manchester by Wryton to pack em in.
Of course they new in advance that it was to be an unmasking.
Or am I wrong again
Sounds like a good call to me, Ron.
And I guess that would make the tag partner Peter Kaye.
But I can't think of a controversial name for their team....?
"the peak Nagasaki and not the later model."
When vs when?
These were great times and David asks the question about my opinion of Peak Naggers. Very Simple , a handful of years either side of his time in Calgary. Probably talking about when he was about age 27-35. The tempo of his matches and risk to himself was so much greater than later years when violence could be enacted it was in a different way.
Range of huge heavyweight opponents was tremendous in the late sixties.
He did deliver a good quality in his next phase and his aura would have impressed many younger people who had not seen him but for myself and many others his best work was with Wryton in those earlier years.
Ok No Paul , you replied while I was compiling my case for Jack Fallon. You have sunk Historyo , Anglo and Hack in one swoop.
What bothered me was the colour of Destroyer's mask , I had thought it might have been white but a long time ago. You now say someone else and Red Mask and I feel a bit stumped.
Going back to Salford I am wondering about Pete Curry who was a version of the Outlaw. Happy chap in the ring and smiling. I know that smile though , , his son Mark Viller played Rugby for Swinton with it and he never took a backward step. Solid as a Tank and not as big as dad.
The only trouble is ....My archive is missing the evidence of Outlaw v Naggers. or for that matter Curry v Naggers.
Help Hack and Anglo......!!!!!!!
"I wonder if Kendo ever encountered George Gordienko, who was the best wrestler I ever saw live."
They teamed up as a tag team in 1968 in Japan, when Kendo was billed as Mr. Guillotine, and faced each other in Canada. At least I think they did, I know Ron did a lot of reseach into Kendo's time in Canada, so he may remember.
They teamed up as a tag team in 1968 in Japan, when Kendo was billed as Mr. Guillotine, and faced each other in Canada. At least I think they did, I know Ron did a lot of reseach into Kendo's time in Canada, so he may remember.
Other than a 12 man battle Royal I never managed to prove that they met. They were billed two nights in Stampede on that tour but I belive at least one bill got changed. By that time Gordienko was part time and not being pushed. As yet I have not found Kendo fighting him in Uk in mid 60's.
What you have to remember with Gordienko is that he started something like 1948 and was great in the 50's and sixties. I am not so sure he lost on these shores. He was the real deal.
However going back to the thread and Paul's clues , I may be misleading myself now but I take it Paul has agreed with me that we are talking the period near 1970 and not late. It is a Red masked man based in the north. Between 66 and 74 , it ain't Bartelli , White Angel or Destroyer. Frank Thomas has already called Pete Curry so not his Outlaw.
Who could have been a heavyweight Red Devil I don't know and I doubt if it was Jim Moran who I think was a Mask or Black Mask and did a lot of matches with Kendo circa 68.
I think I am going to kick myself , but I am running out of options.
Carl Dane, another from the same neck of the woods who also donned a mask.
I think we should go along the route of the only clue Paul has given us: "a controversially named tag team."
Still haven't got a clue but at least focused in ignorance!
Wonder if tag team was a Riot Squad.
I am also wondering.....Dominic Pye
Not Carl not Dom but Anglo is right tag name is massive clue as is heavyweight champion of his adopted country
Slow down Paul. Let's not be too hasty in giving Anglo Italian too much credit. I never am.
Sorry to question Paul, but you understand we are desperate men. Country or county?
Well Paul , I am in the centre of the ring tapping out. You have me in a Powerlock.
Been looking at Shah , Kovacs , Zaranoff and anyone else and scratching my head I can't think of a significant masked man in the late sixties /early seventies once Zebra Kid , Outlaw , Mask , Bartelli and others had gone.
Don't even know if we are dealing with Wryton or Indy's.
Sorry country.lived by the seaside oh and Wryton and M B worker and Dixon Cassidy and others.
We're going to have to devise a new Heritage award for the Biggest Tease.. He's ganging up on us - on his own.
This is doing my head in. I'm doing countries of the world and can only take a stab at Prince Curtis Iaukea.
Playing for time now until a better offering comes along. Sean Regan. Apart from the fact I can't think of a tag partner and don't remember him being northern based.
Has anyone mentioned Big John Cox
No not tony though I get seaside connection ,no not John though did have great bouts with Nagasaki,I'm predicting Thomas to suddenly get it,him or Ron,Anglo is right the tag team name is crucial caused as much bother as the Carrinean Sunshine boys.
I think it is Terry O'Neal of the Liverpool Skinheads. He was Doctor Blood.
Lived at Southport. Country of birth Scotland !!!!
well done Ron I knew you'd get there, title was Irish heavyweight title and the tag team that caused BOVVA was of course The Liverpool Skinheads with Roy Paul.ill attempt to justify my choice later and also explain why Mike Marino was in my top five and may explain why Billy Howes.was a bigger mystery than Kendo could dream of being.
Well done Ron.Thanks for an interesting . thread Paul.Great Stuff
Well done, Ron. You did well to get inside the meanderings of Paul's thoughts and his red herring clues!
Yes Anglo , and the best clue of the lot was un-intentional i think. Paul said Frank might get it. I knew then it was Merseyside , I had been very focused on Snake Pit people.
I never saw Doctor Blood and have no idea where a Nagasaki Dr Blood bout would have been shown.
It has been a marvellous insight to learn of a rough and tough worker who allegedly hurt Kendo. This guy really was a tough one , ex boxer and a big dude.
And I bet if we beg Paul might tell us a bit more. A big guy shown here in your neck of the woods Paul. And he had been at it quite a few years before Kendo.
It was a fantastic thread Paul...cheers
Yes, Paul, come on. It was great fun, as many have mentioned. You have to tell us more about Terry now.
Well done Ron, I was nowhere. And well done Paul for such a clever and entertaining topic. Now, about Billy Howes?
Thanks for your confidence in me Paul. But I would never have got Terry in a million years! A great worker and a nice guy, saw him wrestle Kendo for Brian Dixon a few times.
above all it is important to remember all peter thornley's bouts were pre-arranged before hand and oppenents jobbed for as promoters wanted. at least 75% of his oppenents could have taken him in 5 minutes
Winner of most nonsensical post of the year,however id be interested in your attempt to validate that statement .
If Paul's not telling, Frank holds all the answers as he saw several times the very bout Paul says was so special: Terry O'Neill v Kendo Nagasaki.
What can you tell us about it, Frank?
Anglo never fear put my case for all five guys tomorrow,but looking forward to franks comments,I'm still working out the who are the 75 % who could have have sorted Kendo in five minutes,however iv come to the conclusion that matey is a kendo acolyte playing devils advocate.oh and the replacement decal on Bartellis belt and the very special policeman who was Billy Howes.
I tiotally agree with you about the nonsensicallity of the 75% claim - unfortunately as of late it's become very fashionable among the retired boys of the Renions to sit around and bitch about Kendo, often with TOTAL disregard for fact, logic and especially evidence. This tendencey has spread to some old fans too.
Typically they will claim that Kendo was never a shooter and that most of the locker room could have taken him out (a very easy thing to say now he is conveniently old). Post pictures of pre-wrestling Thonley hagning out with fellow students of Kenshiro Abbe from Abbe's assistant's photo album and they have no coheremt response.
They will also claim that he was not a great technical worker and will claim that all those great technical opening rounds against Rex Strong, Pete Roberts, Lee Bronson, Colin Joynson, Jamaica Kid etc were totally down to the opponent. Post a video clip of one of those great old round ones and a blow-by blow analysis of all the great reversals/counters Kendo does and they just take the piss and label you "SAD" (hello Scrubber Daly, Johnny South's Missus and a few others.)
Oh and they will also claim that Kendo by 1993 was too old to take bumps so had to have a "younger" partner such as Ian Wilson (only two years younger) take the bumps for them. Post a January 1993 camcording of Kendo perfectly selling a monkey climb right across the ring from Johnny Saint and later on being dropkicked out of the ring by Saint and they will just ignore it and then when you press them for a response, will start whinging about how you (or in this case, I) "always have to have the last word". Yes, that person I mentioned on page one was someone on here. No I won't name names. For now.
I shall be in Leamington Spa on Friday and if Brian Dixon is there, I intend to buttonhole him and ask for his thoughts on why the old luvvies are all bitching about Naggers. (oooh I can hear 'em already - "He's trying to stir up sh1t!!! Miaaowww!!!").
Kendo Nagasaki wrote the Intro to The Grapple Manual.In it he describes what a hard spit and sawdust game it was with hard men. He states that in the golden age more showmanship came into it and was thankful that he mastered both. It was a humble piece of writing talking about the honor of being a pro wrestler. As regards his toughness I think he was dead on when he said fortunately he could hold his own.
I saw four louts at the back of Kings Hall calling him and George all sorts. They were tough yound adults. They circled him with the intention of having a go. Kendo dropped his Kit bag to get ready and between them they could not quite find the courage to do the deed. Nobody wanted to go in first and they lacked the will to get organized in case anyone chickened it.
Hero worship is a bit silly , many of the wrestlers were very tough indeed and not worth trying to speculate who was who.
Kendo is a private man who does some very good things in society. A shame for some of us that he chooses not to speak or give us a great book.
My understanding of his first retirement was an inner ear injury and my belief is that after a rest he came back with a work arround style. However that is just an opinion.
Wish he would give us a book though like The Count.
Well said Ron.
Totally agree with you.There are unfortunately some sad people about,who bear grudges against people who are/were much better than them.
Mr Mantell is also correct.I haven't always agreed with him,but this time he is right.
That's right Ron. He had an injury, thought he had to retire, spilled the beans, then came back. I believed he came back more limited but David refutes that above.
A bit naughty to spill those beans when his workmates were still making their crust but we know there was great disgruntlement with the promoters and change 1974 to 1976, as the Years of Wrestling on here show.
Fascinating that he acknowledges the importannce of showmanship. This of course needed to be limited, believable, backed up by ability etc etc etc.
Later, this back-up list was jettisoned.
I have rooted out the Daily Mirror article and have to continue his glory roll today by saying David was right about the year: 28th May 1979.
It doesn't lend itself to scanning. The reporter is Murray Davies.
I did Kendo Nagasaki a disservice with my blurred memory. He actually said he had never been in a fixed bout. And he convinced the reporter how tough wrestling can be.
It's a funny article, entitled KING CON, supposed to be an exposé but actually says how dangerous wrestling is. Nagasaki is stated as being 14 stones.
Kellett and Pallo are interviewed in terms of breaking out of JP's "office hold" but no mention of wrestling being bent.
All in all, the the headline is the biggest con of all.
"Tomorrow: The man who did the dirty on Mick McManus" But I haven't got that. Mind you, we know so much more collectively now that these clippings are rather dated, but still fun.
Anwyay, will be asking Mr Dixon about the whole anti-Kendo thing tonight at the Spa Centre , if he's around selling programmes and foam hands.
Dixon nodded sypathetically "Aye, it's nothing but jealousy!" he said.
Also some thoughts on the subject from James Mason: "Well, everyone has their opinion about Kendo. My opinion was that he was great to work with and a legend too. Like Brian said, it's just jealousy."
So there you have it.
(Show was good. One for the purists like me was Tony Spitfire vs Joe Bailey in an Experience vs Youth match, with the kid showing a nifty bridge and also doing a good version of Johnny Saint's arms-and-legs-stomp escape from a standing full nelson. Quite a few of the lockerroom came out to watch that one including James' opponent Ringo Ryan - the first few minutes of their bout was also quite technical in the "clean round 1" tradition. Also Italian masked star Tiger Kid seems to know how to do a rolling reversal of an arm lever and even "Trump supporting" American heel Harlem Bravado seems to have picked up a few old school counters since coming here. The big news is that Banger was there again and he made a speech announcing his plan to come out of retirement for one night some time soon so he can team up with son Darren/Thunder for a tag match - apparently it looks like All Star are serious about putting this one one some time! Should be good.)
Further to Paul's excellent topic and the emergence of Terry O Neill as Kendos toughest opponent. The first contest I saw at Birkenhead was a riotous affair, it was the 2nd nearest contest involving Kendo that looked near to a genuine "shoot" match(the 1st involved Albert Wall) and ended in a double DQ. Genuinely feel that Kendo knew he was up against it, and resorted to underhand tactics, and got himself disqualified, the crowd roared for him to unmask, but the MC quoted at the time that he wouldn't have to unmask if he lost by the disqualification route.(strangely, I had earlier seen KN lose to Pete Roberts in a one fall contest and the same rule applied didn't have to unmask if he had lost in a one fall contest). As to why Terry gave him such a hiding and so many problems? It could well have been one of two reasons, the first. Bad feeling spilling over from some dressing room spat or such ( after all, Max Crabtree was quoted as saying KN "wasn't a favourite of the team" in Simon Garfields "The Wrestling" The second also comes courtesy of the book and Max who stated "Brian was terrified of Kendo, totally domineered him". So maybe Mr Dixon had become fed up with him, and hoped by either Terry or Albert engaging in a shoot, and causing damage he would "jump ship" who knows.? Of course we know that Kendo did return to Joint eventually, and strangely, I saw Gwyn Davies give him a hard time, in a really tough match.. Kendo to me anyway, never appeared to be the same again, and it lead up to him unmasking..
Nice analysis Frank and of course one further alternative that the DQ was just arranged to end the bout.
Great insight and despite me seeing Kendo so much there were loads of opponents I never got to see him go in with. Top of my wish list would probably be Streiger as long as it was no DQ and a fight to the finish.
And as for Kendo unmasking , for me It was the worst thing he did.
I agree, Ron. With hindsight I think he managed his timing in a way that didn't help. It seems like the Billy Howes unmasking was part of some contract deal that got him the tv exposure, so fair enough. But he was so mysterious masked I feel sure if he'd just stuck at it another couple of years he and wrestling could have become mainstream. Mind you, 13 years behind the mask with all the faffing around to maintain secrecy, give hima break, it must have been a relief. Having said that, he soon had it back on again for another 20, 30, 40 years.
The Big Daddy unmaskings on tv downgraded the whole brand. Seeing him put up no resistance was sad after such diligent work over so many years.
But let's not cry over spilt milk, he gave us great entertainment up to 1977.
Max told him he was making a big mistake unmasking, as years before he had told Count Bartelli, and the fact that Kendo reverted back may well have proven his thoughts to be true..
Kendo V Streiger was billed to take place at Liverpool Stadium, around I think, 1974(ish) a slow moving queue, reminiscent of a cinema queue after World War 2, gets to the box office window to see a hastily scribbled note on the window, "Kendo out, Pete Stewart in" evidently, Kendo had jumped ship to Brian Dixon.. Like yourself, it would have been a match I would have loved to have seen..
Another opponent I would choose is someone that we don't talk about often , Don Vines. He was a real handful and seems to have been more in demand in Europe than with Joint although maybe his time was restricted as he was involved with Rugby league.
Remember Kent Walton telling a story about Don Vines in his book "this grappling game" evidently Don lost two teeth during a contest, KW found them and returned to them to Don, who said: "keep them, and show them to anybody who tries to tell you a forearm smash is pulled" but as ever with "good old Kent" the authenticity of the tale may have grown tall in the telling!
Re Nagasakis best Opponet I would say in my book the promotors and us the fans who went to see Kendo wrestle some wanted the mask to come off others did not and i feel that Kendo knew this and did his best to make sure that the promoter and us fans got wajt we paid for, If Kenndo wanted the mask to come off then it would as it was tied up diffrent and those in the game know that Kendo, the promotor Refree and the opponet knew when it was comming off in which round.
Masked British Wrestlers have come and gone for waht ever reason a nd a big thank you to them for doing so But when a topic comes up about any masked british wrestler the man himself the legened and icon that is Kendo Nagasaki is the one we all look to talk about.
It would be a fans greatest wish to have a book about the life and times of Kendo Nagasaki, but would it be about Kendo Nagasaki or the person behind the mask. perhaps it might happen one day lets do hope so
Going back to our man of the moment Terry O'Neil I knew I had a Doctor Blood Advert somewhere. There are some Lancashire lads who have traveled down for this bill so I can only speculate is this Terry or am I in the wrong era bearing in mind of course that Kendo only started in 1964.
Was it an Alias just used on fleeting occassions.
I also recall a Dr Doom appearing a couple of times on independent shows, mid 70s, Terry perhaps?
Dr Doom? I love it Frank.
Hi Ron, lovely find as ever and always from you! However, clinically observed: Terry O'Neill was scarecly sighted outside Lancashire and I think it highly unlikely he would have made it over the water to Ventnor 10 years before the period we discuss.
But it just goes to show someone had come up with the Dr Blood name.
The more I know, the less I understand.
But the title name in this thread is Terry O'Neill. Is he still alive? We have let too many greats slip through our hands to the Obituaries section in recent years. This thread has only just started as far as I am concerned.
Again Ron, you are right, Terry O'Neill is our Man of the Moment. For people like me who never saw him wrestle, can someone please describe? Frank , can you remember any more?
Paul - time to do the biz?
Hmmm where to start ill leave bartellis INDIAN belt and the missing decal till midweek,ill explain why billy Howes was a mystery and hopefully members recall kents explanation of his absence,but Sunday ill justify my top five,of kendos opponents from punters,promoters workers point of view.number,five was Mike Marino vastyly underated in his later years,his look over the shoulder worth more than twenty minutes off microphone bs. .Comments made about his time in the office and matchmaking totally inaccurate. I digress bloody hell that's nit a broad street statemant. I'll give my opinion in the morning
Terry was a very underrated performer Anglo, as well as seeing him wrestle Kendo Nagasaki I saw him wrestle Ray Glendenning once, strangely the only time I saw him win in singles matches. Most of the time he wrestled in tag with Roy Paul in the "Liverpool Skinheads". Of what could be described a "rugged countenance" BTW the " Liverpool Skinheads" name was slightly misleading, both Terry and Roy possessed fine heads of hair! If a little close cropped. Their gimmick was wearing cut down denim shorts and braces as their ring attire. Only had a brief chat with Terry once, but like many baddies, the in ring and out of ring persona was totally different. A lovely guy to speak to, btw a funny aside.. A friend of mine was considering a wrestling career, and got chatting to Roy Paul once, Roy advised him "get yourself a trade first, as the money in wrestling is "expletive deletive"! He was at least honest in his appraisal! The last time I spoke to Kevin Conneely a few years ago, he informed me that Terry had passed away, and as it's a while since we lost Kevin, it's some time since Terry passed away.
February 11, 2018 at 12:23 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply
There has been some previous knowledge of Terry in the A-Z about his pedigree starting in 1956. He was unmasked by Dr Death which is why I am thinking maybe his Dr Blood era was early to mid sixties.
Asides from that he had a persona as Mr Adonis sometimes advertised with his name and sometimes without, You will find examples of both in Birmingham galleries (Embassy Sportsdome 1959-60)
He was also Nagasaki's second ever opponent (A-Z)
Terry did the Manchester Night Club scene. The claim of Mr Universe I am pretty sure is bogus , certainly as far as the official version is concerned. Dr Blood crops up again and so does Southport.
Pauls thread need one more post for a magnificent 100. We are on a journey.
Must admit I was relieved to see Paul pop up again and remind us of the main event he is going to bring us. An old time wrestler who still has the ability to play to the gallery. How envious I am of Frank to see Kendo beaten not once but twice.In the past when we have said Kendo was not as invincible as thought we were doubted, but Frank comes along with evidence. I too have reported a Rocky Wall match that looked very real indeed. We've all previously mentioned Wall, Davies and Robinson as tough oponents. But here we have Paul tossing in Terry O'Neill. Well it shows how little we all know. And it does us good to remember that. We only know what others want us to know, which often is not a lot. A good post from Lofty too. He does well to remind us that despite the fearsome persona of the 1960s and 1970s what a great professional and showman Kendo was. We all loved the nonsense of the mask half removed. A timely reminder from Lofty that it was all with the Co operation of Kendo. We can respect his professionalism all the more for this. Magnificent and well researched contributions as always from Ron. I don't think we should be too quick to dismiss Terry in Ventnor.On that bill there is Blackburn Roberts, Johnny Eagles, Jack Land, Max Kemp, Mustapha Nasser, Tiger Freddie Woods, Jack Land and most likely Red Eagle were from the north. This was an entirely Lancashire/Yorkshire bill. Surely they could squeeze Terry O'Neill in one of the cars?
Yes yes, probably Terry on the IoW. Just throws up the question of his age?
I am counting the seconds before Ron gives us a birth date and second!
Well I can put The Isle of Wight to bed as a definate that Terry went there.
With regards his age the A-Z has him as far back as 1956. I will see what I can do but just maybe he was born pre war.
The profile is building and we have Doctor Blood. Caulkhead may have seen Doctor Blood.
More info on Terry is that late 1950's I have him in the Manchester Clubs , then he goes more conventional Indy stuff and does get to IOW and Birmingham. Starting when he did he had Geoff Portz Gwyn Davies , Bill Robinson , Rocky Wall , Billy Joyce , and so many more in the way , maybe that was why Shirley fell by the wayside also.
Seems to finally get a chance with Wryton in 1963 and 1964 and I worked through my Kings Hall file. But no top names. Arthur Ricardo twice , Barry Douglas , Reg Williams and Petro Capello.
Much later Terry crops up with Brian Dixon in Tag. Incidently , in the early sixties Terry tagged with Les Thornton.
Frank can tell us all about the Liverpool Skinheads or Bover Boys
Outstanding research, Ron. Thank you.
Hi Ron, The winner of Mr Universe 1950 was Steve Reeves and 1960 was Paul Wynter.
I guess that it was just another promoter's artistic licence!
Since the question has been raised, no I didn't see Doctor Blood at Ventnor. It was only in 1963 that I started going to see live wrestling.
Irish Guardsman? Mr Universe? Liverpool Skinhead? Mr O Neill lived a varied life! Also saw ex rugby league hooker attached to Terry too Ron!
Certainly Ron, the first live show I saw at Liverpool Stadium featured a tag contest between The Saints (Roy and Tony St.Clair) and The Skinheads, who on this occasion were Roy Paul & Eddie Rose(well known and highly regarded on this site) it was the final I was told of a knockout tag tournament, which had taken place the previous week. The "Liverpool Skinheads" came along a little later, with Roy Paul & Terry. As I've said earlier, both gents possessed fine heads of hair! The ring gear featured denim jackets, cut down denim shorts and braces..good tag team..
So here are my thoughts on the top five,but first why I excluded Billy Robinson, I just felt that there bouts lacked something possibly due to mutual respect.number Mike Marino no one could do the startled look that Mike perfected and trust me Marino could wrestle ,no one suffered so beautifully. Like Mike,I pinched that line from a comment about John le Mesuirer.4 albert Wall al matched Nagasaki in agression always fast paced but mixing in mat wrestling.3 Gwyn jim Davies no gallery playing needed Gwyn had every move matched Nagasakis speed and agility,Gwyn had the ability to be loved and hated on different days ,shook hands with him on leaving ring and I was hated in that venue from then(wonder if Kendos no 1 fan remembers that night.number 2 the enigma that was Billy Howes skill aggression speed ringcraft Billy had it all plus the unpredictable flare ups were real.came back a pale shadow buts that's another story.Number one Terry why I hear you ask mainly because Nagasaki didnt know what to expect and always performed better under the circumstances, Terry hurt Nagasaki with vicious pull on grovet short jab and temple busting heel of the hand Terry was no respecter of reputation or bill position strong agressive and never gave less than 100 per cent.The deciding factor that swings it that Nagasaki reacted in kind and worked differently.Sure lots will disagree but that's my five thanks for all the input.
Thanks Paul for your insight, great reading..
I just thought that I would say thank you to Paul for his very interesting input on this forum. I have enjoyed reading his inside thoughts on this topic and also on his information regarding Count Bartelli's Commonwealth Heavyweight belt on a separate forum topic. He is providing great insights of information to us old wrestling fans.
Thats very interesting Paul.
I would like to know how far back you were thinking of when Kendo fought Dr Blood. Must have been Indy's so when.
Now we are all wishing we could see some footage of Terry.
Must echo the previous posters.Thanks for a great thread Paul.Hope we get many more
Did you see those bouts, Paul, or are your comments based on dressing room talk?
Ron Terry fought Nagasaki masked as The Red Devil and it was just before Nagasaki returned to joint after he first jumped ship.
Combination of both Marino personally several times,Wall from other workers,Gwyn personally,Howes again from other workers only time in bill it was very odd bout after Howes came back in from the cold,Terry twice one on the cushions.
aha , so earlier in the thread when I was guessing about on page three I suggested that the masked man could have been one of the ones shown here. We did not know that Terry had been Red Devil as well as Doctor Blood so that makes his Doctor Blood tenure quite early sixties.
Yes this was the match when the "real" Dr Death, aka Paul Lincoln, defeated the White Angel, who was indeed Al Hayes. Lincoln was a genius at generating publicity despite no tv coverage. I remember posters all over London promoting this event and even obtained coverage in one of the London evening newspapers.
Here you are Ron
Many thanks , I wonder how many times they put this bout on. Or was it like Kendo v Bartelli , just the one unmasking.
Tom Tyronne did surprisingly well for a couple of rounds before the eventual defeat
Of those at which I attended Steve Viedor,was always a good opponent, amongst others Terry Rudge.Would like to have seen him against Finlay, Th Dynamite Kid( whenhe returned from USA and Canada) and maybe Spiros Arion.