Andy Scott who is doing his own Chick Knight Book has asked if two pretty big wrestlers can be identified.
I think the biggest guy (Right) is Jack Baltus (Carver Doone)
The other guy I am still looking at.
Help and opinions much appreciated. I do think we are looking at 1930's and in these matters they are always tricky which is why we need people taking a stab.
Grrr the format of this forum. I can't see what Ron was giving me credit for three years ago, and I see no post from myself, and I cannot detect who has revived this today.
Otherwise, peaches and cream!
For what it's worth, I just re-looked at the picture today and on the left instantly saw Norman the Butcher.
I think that height for Pettifer is bang on which is always nice to see.
Don't think he wrestled for long , but he is one of my candidates to be Oakeley's pre war Ghoul.
Great collection MM....thanks.
There are plenty of Google images and also can be found on facebook.
When I found this picture where he was not actually dwarfing everyone , I can now understand why Carver Doone showed up bigger.
Also some footage here of him tapping to Shikat in USA
https://www.efootage.com/videos/55720/shikat-vs-pinetzki-wrestling-match-1932
Thanks Mike and Ron.
Pinecki actually seems to have had a tough life in some respects. The fact that his village was on the border of "Greater Poland" and Germany, and he was Polish but conscripted into the Prussian Army (German), wrestled in Germany in his Polish National colours until Hitler came to power and was then forced to change. Having to give a Nazi salute in the ring, etc.
After World War 2, the Germans thought he was some sort of spy for the Poles and vice versa. He seems to have been given a rough time.
From what I can tell, he did OK in America and maybe should have just stayed there. Pfefer made sure he (and other Polish wrestlers) won enough matches to become popular with local Polish-American citizens and there are a few stories of Pinecki being invited as guest of honour to parties, where his legendary eating and drinking came into effect (apparently he drank beers to warm up and then a bottle and half of Vodka, with no effect).
Anyway, again, someone I knew little of. My friends with Polish family history will find this very interesting I think.
Much appreciated Mike , that explains the Assirati business and great that you could look at the photo and come up with the name.
Amazing that Jack Baltus (Carver Doone) is clearly bigger but that's typical of wrestling.
The last part of the mystery is where the photo was taken because we can neither prove Carver Doone ever wrestled overseas or that Pinetzki wrestled here.
In my haste to answer your mystery wrestler I named him as Leon Pinetzki, known as the ape man, which is correct, Assirati beat his Brother Harry at the Berlin Tournament in 1952, as well as the giant Kurt Zehe. I have a lot of German Tournament photos around 1936 showing Leon and other German wrestlers doing the Nazi salute. I hope that clarifies my info,
Agreed Ron, time for others to chip in. The Pfefer connection could indicate that our man spent some time in London, maybe on route to the USA? Did Oakeley mention any Eastern European Giant in Blue Blood on the Mat?, it's years since I read it, and I sold my copy.
It's been really interesting looking into the Pinecki life story, a man I knew nothing of.
So maybe a brother and a son or maybe confusion , but thanks Sax , you and I have been debating for a long time now.
Credit to Anglo who had a go and we wanted more from others , but then this is 1930's and most are wary of saying anything. It is Niche stuff.
Mike Hallinan has his Assirati records , a great hobby in itself , but if he meant this giant Pole who based his wrestling in Germany and so seemed like a German then fighting Assirati in 1952 can't be right.
We have found no alternative as facially the photo and Pinetzki are very alike.
I don't know because a giant like this man in the video should have measured up almost the same as Carver Doone.
These are the mysteries of wrestling and it's giants , which for me have always started at six feet six inches. We know wrestling is an illusion.
The papers have no consistency either with heights and weights , but what I did get out of this research is that Jack Pfefer was plundering Europe via London for giants, Sergie Kalmikoff went as did Kola Kwariani. They are hard men to find a wrestling record of here , but they did wrestle here and I have a feeling we have missed Pinetzki , possibly somewhere in London.
Pinetzki was actually a top man in Europe and also in America and we gain a nice knowledge of it all.
Even something so basic as more pictures of Norman the Butcher evade us and recently we have lost Ray Plunkett. I think even Ray's great efforts may have only covered a quarter of all that went on.
So anyone reading , even if you have never posted , a chance to give an opinion. At the start of the thread we have a photo then we have a video of a giant wrestling an Elephant. Are they the same man.
Hi Ron, another bit of info, after more digging, it appears that Leon Pinecki was married three times, and he had a son, Harry, who folowed him into wrestling, but had to stop because of a heart defect, I think this is the wrestler who Bert Assirati faced. Harry P appears to have had an 8 year wrestling career.
"...Pinecki's only child, Harry, following his father's example, became a wrestler, but a heart defect forced him to interrupt his sports career..."
I have a snippet from an american report. Pinetzski liked to eat a 24 egg omelet.
By my reckoning that's pretty near 150 grams of protein.
Great research and thread, guys!
Great thread guys!
Right again Sax and another one Pfefer took over at the same time was Sergie Kalmikoff. In an interview he said that to get the best Europeans London was the place to get them. Maybe Pinecki had visited England.
That latest picture I put up is amazing considering Carver Doone looked even bigger.
I don't think Assirati fought Leon Pinecki, as I am sure his death is 1949 is correct, Ron.
Harry sounds more likely and was active at that time.
The picture above, the person on the right, with the walking stick, is promoter Jack Pfefer, who was originally from Warsaw and brought a number of Polish (and other) giant wrestlers across to the USA. Pfefer was not a tall man, and I would imagine he rounded up men of a similar height for the photograph.
Other articles have Pinecki at six eight and yet he fights Strangler Lewis and they have him only at 250 LBS , then it's 300 LBS for other matches.
What did they do to take this photo , find the smallest men they could. he shore looks a big un here.
I found an article in the Australia papers in 1932 about Pinecki and the Elephant so that looks to be the year of the video footage.
The Australian papers quoted his height as six eight and then actually seven feet.
Also of note , an article on Max Krauser stating that he had beaten Pinecki in Europe and had 85 victories in England plus a draw with Jack Sherry.
1932 was also the year Pinecki went to America and lo and behold they stated he was a giant of six feet four and 280 LBS , so that is more like the comparison with Carver Doone.
It does not explain though how he could have fought Assirati in 1952.
Did Assirati fight his brother.
Carver Doone at almost six seven measured six eight and a half in his lumberjack boots which boxing circles used to bill him because Carnera's height had caused a sensation and to best that was a great way of selling tickets. Doone and Pettifer were taller than Carnera.
It's a tough one, no doubt Ron.
Facially, it's a direct match (for me) of the giant Pole.
I knew nothing about the man until this thread, and has been great fun digging up his story.
Carver is easy 1932-1937 as a Wrestler and you can refresh on what i have said here.
https://www.wrestlingheritage.com/onthetrailofcarverdoone
Chic started mid 1930's , I reckon the picture is 1936/1937.
My problem is that I don't see the man in the picture as being big enough.
Give or take an inch the giant Pole would look similar to Carver in height as would have Jim Moran. But not just height , weight as well.
The man in the picture is just not quite big enough for me.
Carver and Chic did do Film Work so that was an opportunity although I don't know if they did the same film ever.
No doubt Ost will be posting tonight , maybe he can give us an extra opinion.
I can't even say Anglo is wrong , I just can't make heads or tails of it.
Ron, to me, the man in the picture with Chick and Carver is facially very close to Leon Pinecki, I would say very, very close indeed, in fact.
The length of his arms (in the picture of all three of them), look freakishly long, and this is what is said in the accounts of him I have been reading, it was his height, build/weight and wingspan that made him stand out.
The angle of the original picture is hard to judge. Doone looks bigger (which I think his stats made out he would be), but his arms don't appear any longer than the other bloke.
Why all three would be together for that sort of publicity photo, I am not sure, nor am I (or any of us) sure where the picture was taken.
Leon Pinecki appears to be have been wrestling around Europe until a year before his death, so that means the picture could have been anywhere from 1920 to 1948, we would need to tie in Chick Knight and Carver Doone's active years.
To further complicate matters, Chick Knight faced Harry Pinetzki in Berlin in November 1953. I assume that this is the same man in the film footage (earlier in the thread) that was facing Primo Carnera, and looked nothing like Leon Pinecki?
What's your gut feeling Sax....is the man with Chic and Carver the giant in the Video....... Pinecki
Or is the man in the picture not heavy enough or tall enough and could be someone called Piniski (German/Austrian) who fought Assirati in 1952 according to Mike Hallinan , and that man had a Nazi salute gimmick.
You have proved Polish born Pinecki was not alive in 1952. great stuff.