The French had and have some very impressive technical wrestlers.Anyone who visited the Elysee Montmartre near Sacre Coeur Basillica in its heyday will confirm this
........who needed John Lees, Barry Douglas, Larry Coulton, Syd Cooper and Ivan Penzecoff to co-operate in making them look so skilful.
Lovely cartoon, Ruslan, thanks. Since flags have changed over the last 100 years, I am not clear as to who the two on the left and the two on the right are supposed to represent?
My article refers to the Featherweight Championship of Lancashire Amateur Wrestling Association, 1934. Here's a photo of Champion Boltonian Johnny Nelson with his belt.
Hi Anglo.Oh I don't want to see you beheaded so I will tweak the title of the original post where my answer was that I believed they were technically superior. However,as you correctly pointed out this may have been the case in Britain under British rules, However,it the post was adjusted to,"Were British technical wrestlers the best in the world whatever country they wrestled in" then we may get a different answer altogether.
Yeah Anglo, in fact pro wrestling is a very local thing, which is always advertised as being world-wide. And it's look and appearance is a part of local culture, or local kayfabe and that's how it has always been. Taste and preferences are different. What they like in Paris, France, is one style of russlin, what is preferred in Los Angeles, California or New York City is another, and of course the 1950s Mount Evans style is a completely different thing, pro wrestling is a matter of tastes of the crowds which gather to watch the greatest showcase on Earth.
No, I am not into 'shooterzzz' (a popular conspiracy theory as I call it), sorry to say but all my catch pro wrestling researches (which go back to 1820s, even with up and down fighting/wrestling) show NO credible evidences of such a thing as "shoots", period. Shoots is also a culture and as kayfabe as everything else what surrounds russlin.
As for the business, studying the Golden Era of Catch the 1860's taught me that THERE'S NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN...and what wrestling fans saw in the 1960's their forefathers saw in the 1860's. And Teddy Lowe and William Schora followed the same pattern of pro wrestling career as the heroes of the 1950's and 60's. All good, LONG LIFE TO RUSSLIN.
Outstanding find Ruslan! I wonder if Jack Dale suggested seven years later that Prince Charles don a mask to become the "Prince of Pain"?
I am happy to see so many of you wallowing in the Gordon-Banks-Syndrome that everything British is best - especially when you don't know what is happening in other countries.
Since we know that so many, nay all, British Champions were Wiganites in the late fifties, this would entail that the little town of Wigan had the seven best wrestlers worldwide. Does this seriously seem credible to you all?
With all due respect to Romeo, who likes to arouse us with his impossible rankings, this one is even more impossible than usual through its absence of definition.
I will whole-hearetedly agree that in terms of British-syle professional wrestling with British rules and within a British context, tailored to the British public's desires, the British wrestlers were the best in the world.
But these British wrestlers only needed to go to Paris where expectations were slightly different and they found themselves losing. And not even headlining. Professional wrestling is so local.
And if we want to get all serious again about Wigan shooters - how come they didn't clean up with wrestling golds at successive Olympix?
Romeo - the only hope to save my beheading is that you tweak and define the title of this thread.
Golden Era of Amateur Catch in Lancashire. The 1920s. In the early 1930s that prestigious title and belts of course were still around. Just like in the 1860s...in 1920s-30s the featherweight class was the most important...little demons sport.
I agree that British wrestlers were above any of the other wrestlers, but as The Ost said the Hungarian wrestlers have also to be classified as “top tier”. The question is why was this so? In my opinion and my own experience, I have a few reasons for this:
- Most British wrestlers came up from the amateur ranks i.e. no gimmickry.
- They went through training in the various styles i.e. Cumberland/Westmoreland, Lancashire catch, catch-as-catch-can etc. These were tough lessons!
- At least in the North, a lot of wrestlers had backgrounds from the mining pits, but also a lot were rugby players. This made them “hard nutters to crack”.
A lot of Japanese promotions would send their young wrestlers here too, it wasn't just the technique but also learning a different style to help the wrestlers become more versatile.
The French had and have some very impressive technical wrestlers.Anyone who visited the Elysee Montmartre near Sacre Coeur Basillica in its heyday will confirm this
........who needed John Lees, Barry Douglas, Larry Coulton, Syd Cooper and Ivan Penzecoff to co-operate in making them look so skilful.
Lovely cartoon, Ruslan, thanks. Since flags have changed over the last 100 years, I am not clear as to who the two on the left and the two on the right are supposed to represent?
Yes definitely. Take Billy Robinson, Marty Jones, John Naylor, Johnny Saint, Bert Royal. Fine ambassadors for technical skill.
Shooterz of the world Unite, Unite !!! Parade of Lutteurs !!!
My article refers to the Featherweight Championship of Lancashire Amateur Wrestling Association, 1934. Here's a photo of Champion Boltonian Johnny Nelson with his belt.
Hi Anglo.Oh I don't want to see you beheaded so I will tweak the title of the original post where my answer was that I believed they were technically superior. However,as you correctly pointed out this may have been the case in Britain under British rules, However,it the post was adjusted to,"Were British technical wrestlers the best in the world whatever country they wrestled in" then we may get a different answer altogether.
Yeah Anglo, in fact pro wrestling is a very local thing, which is always advertised as being world-wide. And it's look and appearance is a part of local culture, or local kayfabe and that's how it has always been. Taste and preferences are different. What they like in Paris, France, is one style of russlin, what is preferred in Los Angeles, California or New York City is another, and of course the 1950s Mount Evans style is a completely different thing, pro wrestling is a matter of tastes of the crowds which gather to watch the greatest showcase on Earth.
No, I am not into 'shooterzzz' (a popular conspiracy theory as I call it), sorry to say but all my catch pro wrestling researches (which go back to 1820s, even with up and down fighting/wrestling) show NO credible evidences of such a thing as "shoots", period. Shoots is also a culture and as kayfabe as everything else what surrounds russlin.
As for the business, studying the Golden Era of Catch the 1860's taught me that THERE'S NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN...and what wrestling fans saw in the 1960's their forefathers saw in the 1860's. And Teddy Lowe and William Schora followed the same pattern of pro wrestling career as the heroes of the 1950's and 60's. All good, LONG LIFE TO RUSSLIN.
Outstanding find Ruslan! I wonder if Jack Dale suggested seven years later that Prince Charles don a mask to become the "Prince of Pain"?
I am happy to see so many of you wallowing in the Gordon-Banks-Syndrome that everything British is best - especially when you don't know what is happening in other countries.
Since we know that so many, nay all, British Champions were Wiganites in the late fifties, this would entail that the little town of Wigan had the seven best wrestlers worldwide. Does this seriously seem credible to you all?
With all due respect to Romeo, who likes to arouse us with his impossible rankings, this one is even more impossible than usual through its absence of definition.
I will whole-hearetedly agree that in terms of British-syle professional wrestling with British rules and within a British context, tailored to the British public's desires, the British wrestlers were the best in the world.
But these British wrestlers only needed to go to Paris where expectations were slightly different and they found themselves losing. And not even headlining. Professional wrestling is so local.
And if we want to get all serious again about Wigan shooters - how come they didn't clean up with wrestling golds at successive Olympix?
Romeo - the only hope to save my beheading is that you tweak and define the title of this thread.
He had at least three visits to the Royal Albert Hall to watch wrestling then not just the two in the 1960's
1956. Noble Sport of 'Russlin'.
Golden Era of Amateur Catch in Lancashire. The 1920s. In the early 1930s that prestigious title and belts of course were still around. Just like in the 1860s...in 1920s-30s the featherweight class was the most important...little demons sport.
I agree that British wrestlers were above any of the other wrestlers, but as The Ost said the Hungarian wrestlers have also to be classified as “top tier”. The question is why was this so? In my opinion and my own experience, I have a few reasons for this:
- Most British wrestlers came up from the amateur ranks i.e. no gimmickry.
- They went through training in the various styles i.e. Cumberland/Westmoreland, Lancashire catch, catch-as-catch-can etc. These were tough lessons!
- At least in the North, a lot of wrestlers had backgrounds from the mining pits, but also a lot were rugby players. This made them “hard nutters to crack”.
Cheers
The Hungarians were top tier
In a word, yes.
The very best.
A lot of Japanese promotions would send their young wrestlers here too, it wasn't just the technique but also learning a different style to help the wrestlers become more versatile.
I don't think there can be any doubt. Agree.