1974: a Schism in Joint Promotions?

Remember Also That at least 2 Top Top Wrestlers left JOINTS in 1974!-

ALBERT WALL Retired from The Ring-Taking his Original MOUNTEVANS

HEAVYWEIGHT Belt with him!!

Plus ADRIAN STREET also Quit JOINTS-Citing a Lack of a Payment Recognition

For his Talents-Skills and Contributions to The Business!!

2 Major Losses to The 'Roster'!!

MAIN MASK

"Mick McManus never did become an official director, which goes against my original thought." Your original thought was right Anglo Italian.

Companies House records list McManus as a Director of Joint Promotions in 1977.

There's also reference to him being a Diector of Dale Martin, but no date, 1971 or earlier.

I mentioned this in another thread, earlier this year (I think) about the Hurst Park Syndicate.

"...Best-Wryton in that article clearly moved into Scotland after 1974 and 8 years later had ousted the incumbent Paisley promoter..."

I think it was Astaire who bought the Best-Wryton name. Pallo said that Arthur Wright and Billy Best had retired by this point.

He probably had Max running it for him.

Anglo Italian wrote: "Mick McManus never did become an official director, which goes against my original thought." Your original thought was right Anglo Italian.

Companies House records list McManus as a Director of Joint Promotions in 1977.

There's also reference to him being a Diector of Dale Martin, but no date, 1971 or earlier.

All fascinating stuff, Ron.

I suspect this is one of the more technical topics and that some readers will be a bit lost and perhaps think we are going into unnecessary detail.

To put this into context:

We frequently see the subject discussed of WHY WRESTLING WENT DOWNHILL and we know the reasons we have been trotting out for a couple of decades.

But this thread is already starting to show how Joint Promotions fractured in 1974. Four of the gentleman retired. Officially. Basically, they wanted out of Joint Promotions. And then they kept on promoting. Relwyskow was seemingly never in it 100%. Best-Wryton in that article clearly moved into Scotland after 1974 and 8 years later had ousted the incumbent Paisley promoter. The gentleman's agreement about territory also fractured in 1974.

If we can understand what it was in 1973 and 1974 that made these founding fathers want to give up on it all, we will have perhaps an inside insight into why wrestling went down hill.

I can list some possible reasons the promoters didn't want to keep in Joint Promotions at that time:

They didn't like McManus's power.

They didn't like Marino as matchmaker.

They didn't like Mike Judd.

They could see Max Crabtree on the horizon, their competitor in the north over many years.

It's very odd indeed that after the UK joined the Common Market in 1973, the number of visiting international wrestlers dwindled. It should have been the opposite. What was the reason for this?

Just a little report that I found on Peter Keenan's grip on Scotland.

I know it's a lot later 1982 , but just shows how he ended up.

Excellent detail, Hack. One wonders to what extent names like Ernest Lofthouse and Mike Judd were puppets for promoters like Morrell who saw Max Crabtree on the horizon and wanted to remain in JP but continue to do his own thing.

Morrell seemed to promote under various guises and we'll probably never get to the bottom of his trickery. But Ron's point is undeniable: Morrell was promoting the famous Masambula match in Preston in 1975 - Hack was there - even though two of his companies had folded in December 1974. He even appeared for the court case, so must have been the main man in Morrell & Beresford promotions.

So Hack's list of 1975 JP directors shows us:

• no Ted Beresford?

• nobody from Best Wryton?

• three of the five directors were Joint Promotions. Are they Les Martin and Johnny Dale?

And for the record, Mick McManus never did become an official director, which goes against my original thought. He probably was wise enough to foresee the messy seventies ahead and kept out of it. Maybe he was what they call a "non-executive director." Because we know he attended the fortnightly Leeds meetings.

So Wryton and Best were not represented in the JP boardroom after June 1975. But they continued promoting as if in JPs, didn't they? So we have to consider them in a category with Paul Lincoln Management, Devereaux, Peter Keenan and Ted Beresford Promotions. How can we classify this group?

Agree, Paul Mitchell - where are you, our Wryton insider?????

15 years ago we had Mike Judd from Tunbridge Wells participating on here in defence of our widespread "financial irregularities" onslaught. He gets a bad press, but I for one like to stick up for him as he was the best Southern MC and 1975 and 76 were still good years quality-wise at Dale Martin when he was in control. When some of the old men retired, for sure some of the wrestlers sought the chance to improve their lot. Pallo's quote was selective and one-sided as autobiographies allow (Nagasaki's!) Discipline had been the fifties foundation of JPs - they even got Assirati out for being naughty - and Mike Judd, perhaps single-handedly, sought to maintain that discipline. In all walks of life, experienced old hands (Kellett, Pallo) do not take well to younger managers coming in and rejigging things. I bet McManus had told Judd that Pallo's wings needed clipping.

1974 was the watershed year as Anglo Italian says. Four of the Joint Promotion companies (Norman Morrell, Bill Best, Wryton, Globe) were wound up voluntarily on 16th December, so we can assume their owners had ceased an active role some months before.

The companies Best-Wryton and Morrell-Beresford continued after 1974, but not sure who owned them. Did Max buy them in 1974. Maybe Paul or someone else involved can tell us.

On 12th June 1975 Directors of Joint Promotions were listed as:

HW Abbey, J.G. Abbey, G.F.H. de Relwyskow, M.Judd, E. Lofthouse

Secretary J.Smith

Years ago Russell Plummer wrote on the forum, "It's amazing how dates blur into one another but I think Max Crabtree's Dale Martin influence began around 1976. He was certainly spending a week or so in the Brixton office each month in 1977 when I started producing the Wrestling Scene newsheet, and by then the operation had left 313 Brixton Road and moved to the much less impressive surroundings of Nursery Road where Peter Szakacs ran the office. Max was also firmly in charge for the 1977 Albert Hall royal show attended by the Duke of Kent. Max started promoting in his own right with Twentieth Century Promotions and then became Joint Promotions' man man in the north working from the offices in Kirkgate Chambers, Leeds, later running the show from the Relwyskow office in Roundhay, Leeds, with the Dale Martin branding extended to northern bills."

Max working from Roundhay is interesting because Relwyskow was never taken over by Max. Max was appointed Director of Dale Martin on 14th October 1985 and bought the business in January 1987.

On 2nd February 1989 Ann deRelwyskow is named as sole director of Relwyskow Promotions, Max and Beryl Crabtree are sole Directors of Best Wryton and Dale Martin Promotions.

I noticed on the June 1974 Scotland shows, Pallo is on the same bill with Shirley and George Kidd.

Norman Morrell was still promoting in 1975 as that was the year Masambula's career came to an end and Morrell was sued in 1981 by Masam.

Not saying of course that he was still promoting that late.

Relwyskow went well beyond 1974 at Hamilton

In 1988 it was claimed that they were still TV Promoters.

Never thought of it before , but maybe Relwyskow should be considered a separate entity to Max Crabtree's group as well as Brian Dixon after 1974.

Of course one of the wrestlers could tell us so much more.

I've found details of a later televised bill featuring Pallo on 27th February 1974.

Jackie Pallo v Johnny Saint

Les Kellett v Honey Boy Zimba

Jim Breaks v Jackie Pallo jnr

Kendo Nagasaki v Ray Steel

 Leon Arras v Colin Joynson

Jack Robinson v Mick James

Just on a listing. Did it not happen?

Pallo wrestled extensively for Dale Martin Promotions that first quarter, frequently against Maxine and Kellett.

I also see Pallo working all the way through to February 1975 on Relwyskow bills in Darlington and Scotland. I think what this shows us is the independence enjoyed by Relwyskow within Joint Promotions. Or maybe the whole concept of Joint Promotions was fizzling out by late 1974?

From Saxonwolf's, we can perhaps deduce McManus gave Pallo all those pushes and the title 1967 to 1973 because Pallo's participation was a contractual requirement of Jarvis Astaire's purchase.

The "I didn't hear you knock?" affair may have been December 1973. As a result, Judd ensured Pallo had no more tv bouts. The Jarvis Astaire commitment had now lapsed.

Pallo saw the writing was on the wall, so he was obliged to set up his own show.

He's got muddled with the year, that call to Judd would have been in the first quarter of 1974. He didn't have the internet!

I cannot see that a week's notice would have worked. Wrestlers were on posters for 30 to 60 days ahead. If he only gave a week's notice, there would have been multiple Pallo & Son no-shows in April 1974.

So, according to Pallo himself, his problems with Joint Promotions started with the retirement of the "old guard" and Jarvis Astaire entering the picture.

Jackie had no issue with Astaire, who had said that a requirement of buying Dale Martin was that Pallo and McManus were on the roster.

Pallo said that over the next couple of years, Arthur Wright, Billy Best, Norman Morrell and Ted Beresford all retired and Astaire swept up their businesses, leaving only Relwyskow and Green, plus Max Crabtree (who worked for himself as well as Joint).

Arthur Green then left Joint Promotions and George De Relwyskow died and Astaire put Billy Dale in charge. Astaire then sold DM to William Hill.

This is where the trouble starts; Mike Judd (who Jackie called "Paul Lincoln's general dogs body") is brought in to DM and made a Director. He starts telling the wrestlers what to do, which rounds to take a fall in, things like that. Experienced wrestlers didn't like it.

Jackie said that on one occasion, he walked into Judd's office and Judd said "I didn't hear you knock?", so Jackie had him up against the wall, threatening to punch him (Pallo had a boxing background, don't forget), and McManus pulled Pallo off and calmed him down.

Jackie said that after this, his bookings would be all over the place, so for example if he was appearing on a quiz show or "The Generation Game" or something like that, he would suddenly find he was wrestling in Newcastle that day.

April 1973, "This is Your Life" contact Jackie Junior and ask if he can help to set his dad up, he agrees, and works with all the other Wrestlers and Joint Promotions, to make the show a success. Eamon Andrews and the TV crew are briefed to attend the Fairfields Hall in Croydon on a certain date . At the last minute, Pallo's match is switched and he is told to go to Aberdeen. JJ scrambles to stop the film crew going to Croydon, costing a lot of money as things are already in motion.

Eventually everything is re-arranged, and three months later, in Reading, as Pallo is about to face Adrian Street, Eamon Andrews walks in and the show goes ahead and is filmed.

On the day it is scheduled to be on ITV, Pallo is told he has to be in Perth (meaning he will miss the broadcast). He manages to catch the show by literally stopping at a hotel and asking if they have a TV lounge.

A few months later, JJ tells his dad about the Aberdeen story and Pallo is furious.

The problems with Mike Judd continue, and if Pallo or JJ ever question anything, Judd says "If you don't like it, go and do something else".

According to Jackie Pallo, he mulled things over for a while and then one morning in 1975, he called Mike Judd and told him he would wrestle his final dates, that week, but after that he was gone, and to take him off the books. The following week he set up Jackie Pallo Enterprises.

Oh, interesting, Ron. So he had no tv work in the first quarter of '74. And I don't think he no-showed on all his April and May bookings. It looks like he gave three months notice to Dale Martin at Christmas '73 and worked out his time professionally.

And it looks like Relwyskow and perhaps Morrell continued to use him but used the names Keenan and Beresford so as not to compromise Joint Promotions' NATO-like all-for-one-one-for-all policy.

The cartel really did seem to fracture in 1974.

Before I look into this more , I would note that certain wrestlers did some promoting that may have looked "Joint"

For sure Kendo was with Dixon.

But Andy Robin , George Kidd , Street and the Borgs promoted along with Pallo and it looks certain that they all helped one another out.

In Nooks and Crannies I often point to the art of making money on gates of only a few hundred. Scotland has many examples.

Think this was Pallo's last TV match

Thur 10/1/74, Wolverhampton (taped 11/12/73)

Vic Faulkner (W) v Jackie Pallo KO)

And I still think his last Dales match was at Bury St Edmunds 28th march 74