All seems very quiet on here for a while. I've wanted to post something just to get some conversation started but it's all been said.
Just out of interest is their any one bout you saw that really left an impression? Or anything odd you witnessed?
The oddest memory I have was a match with Jon Cortez fighting someone I can't remember. It was a fairly low key and quite bout when, something I didn't catch was yelled out from the audience. Cortez jumped out of the ring and gave chase to someone right out of the hall. His opponent and the ref Max Ward looked as bemused as everyone else and Jon never did return. Very strange.
Biggest impression was the first time I saw Giant Haystacks entering the ring. What an amazing presence he had as he walked past me, this was when I still believed wrestling was real. I remember looking at his opponent Tony St Clair and thinking this guy is about to be killed!
Great days before the world went mad, I miss the wrestling and many other things from that era.
Just great work together, sparking the viewing public's interest ... at the time.
Ah right. Thanks Ron.
They probably met more than 100 times Frank. I have a list of 1950's bouts and it won't be them all and I have thirty for that decade.
Very interesting to read all this information about Pallo v McManus bouts. Sadly they were a bit before my time so I my enjoyment of them is only via reading about them on here. The only thing I don’t understand is as their bouts were such big occasions why didn’t they meet more? Or is that the very reason why it was always a huge occasion.
Thanks Ron. How fascinating that, poles apart, both our strongest sixties memories are of McManus's march to the ring, spring-heeled.
I believe the three Pallo v McManus bouts at the Albert Hall are the only time the pair met in singles in the seventies. I'd love to be proved wrong.
Bernard's having a few problems.
Here he is..
What a good idea to pose the queries in this thread.
Unfortunately for you I have posted most of my clearest memories of those far off days on here before.
But for some of you who have not seen all of my recollections, I will outline some of the things about wrestling that thrilled and excited me at the time.
I first went to St James Hall about 1948.
Top of that first bill was a headline The Ghoul!
I did not know what to expect.
My mate Jimmy Purvis, who had been going for over a year said that we should wait outside to see the wrestlers come in.
A small car drew up and when the doors opened, 4 wrestlers emerged ,all carrying leather holdalls.
Then the car shook from side to side as a fifth man emerged. He was wearing a grubby white mask covering his face and was the biggest man I have ever seen as he walked past me. You know who he was !
Jimmy said that it was time to go in. The excitement hit me.
The atmosphere was a mixture of cigarette smoke and sweat. I loved going there each Saturday that I could afford to go.
Most of my wrestling memories involved The Ghoul
. I say most because of the bouts between Jack Pye and Abdul the Turk, also George Kidd and Johnny Stead.
The former was the most unusual thing that I saw in Newcastle when Jack ran across the ring knocked Abdul over,and kicked Abdul's prayer mat out of it. They fought from then to the bell for the end of the first round with referee Les Kellett vainly trying to separate them.
The latter was the best scientific wrestling that I witnessed. A fifteen round draw for Kidd's title
George got the first fall with his roll up into a ball trick. The first time that I had seen this. Johnny Stead, a brilliant wrestler, got the equalising pinfall using a counter to the same move.
Alright, we know now what went on , but as a 12 -13 year old how was I to know?
Where do I start with the big man?
An amazing bout with Hassan Ali Bey.
A surprising result against Geoff Portz.
A rather lacklustre bout to defeat and unmask The Vampire
And the three matches against Jack Pye.
Now I am going to do my plug for this site, the best and most knowledgeable fountain of wrestling data that I have ever seen.
There is a wealth of knowledge in the Wrestling Heritage site and it would take you a long, long while to read all of it.
But if you want to know what happened in The Ghoul matches, mentioned above, read the items in “Memories”.
Don't stop there the A-Z is brilliant too.
Happy reading.!
I just posted on here and I has disappeared. Try again.
The first time Finlay took on Alan Kilby rather politically incorrectly described as"deaf and dumb".The crowd 100% behind Kilby and completely riled by Finlay
I can see results for 1972 and 1973, Ron, Pallo won in 72 and McManus in 73.
Anglo asks about me seeing McManus v Pallo live. In 1969 we were lucky that they came to BelleVue with that bout twice. This was very late in the day and had been well played out over the years. These are the two shows.
I have to own up to being disappointed , I had already seen their bouts on TV , can't remember the dates and was it 2 or 3 times. At that time I was not old enough to drive so my dad used to drop me and my mate off and we did the whole thing , the night on the fair , the Bobs (Big Dipper) fastest in the world at that time. I have actually had to check Rays results to try and remember which show I did. The June meeting was a double DQ , I can remember the match ending in DQ but not sure if double. The September match Pallo was disqualified. Which ever bout it was , it was ok but I felt an inferior imitation of their epics. I probably had not got the bug as much then because Kendo was on both shows and that was before TV made him famous. It was very early days for Pat Roach as well and in those days I believed Pierlot was French. I became aware he was Les Thornton in the early 70's. Even Kendo did not register that much , I sort of thought he was too light for the real big men , which makes me think I was probably at the September show. My kendo awakening was the Billy Howes TV match. I realised he was still unbeaten and the mask was being pulled off, that did it.
To be honest , I never enjoyed DQ's of any description , always felt cheated , that was the trouble with Streiger bouts. So there you are Anglo , a very Hazy memory of Mick and Jackie although the highlight was to actually see them come to the ring in the flesh. I also noticed how small they were. I was there and did it , but the highlight was probably the Bobs and a bag of chips.
Does anyone know if they ever met in the 1970's. I don't have any such bills.
Rocco taking on Jones, and at one point Jones was down injured, Rocco goes over to the far post, behind the ref's back, and undid the corner pad, exposing the nuts and bolts, people were rising to their feet, shouting at the ref and trying to point over to the corner post, the ref made out that he didn't know what they were shouting.
Rocco grabbed Marty by the arm and starting to pull him and at the last minute, Jones did the switch and hurled Rocco into the exposed corner post, the place became unglued with loud cheers and clapping.
The point to the story, above, is that by that time, I had worked out that Wrestling wasn't really "on the level", but in that brief moment, I was totally swept up in the story that was being played out, in the ring, and was clapping and cheering, along with everyone else.
You monkey, Ron! You never said you saw McManus v Pallo. Do tell more.
Great idea and Norfolk Snake has developed the theme magnificently.
I remember the first time I saw really big names clash: McManus v Kellett in Tooting. The excitement as they walked from the back of the hall all the way down the aisles, within touching distance. McManus's pace was just that bit fast, clearly indicating he really meant business.
That was the excitement I always wanted to experience again.
When I first saw Haystacks he was tall but slimmer than the later tv version. He was only on a supporting bout so, funnily enough and with dollops of hindsight, he rather passed me by. I was so impressionable!
I'd been trying to see the elusive Mr big and finally managed to see him one night at Croydon. That was satisfying.
I remember, before his tv exposure,and no commentator to brainwash us, we were in great debate as to how to pronounce Kendo Nagasaki. In the sixties, we weren't in any doubt that he was Japanese, that was just a clear fact. My brother was fascinated at seeing a man in a skirt, and how he folded it. This was pre-1968! What a visionary!
I remember also the hopes, usually unfulfilled. That McManus and Pallo would fight again on tv and I'd actually see them. That The Black Diamonds or Andy Robin would get to the south coast. That The Outlaw would appear again on tv or at my hall (his disappearance was never announced. All very clever that we now know he left in June 1968, but without that information, I was hanging on for several years just thinking I'd missed him and all would be well.)
Excitement's the word. They really managed to stimulate it in a great variety of ways.
A great idea for a thread and I went to so many it's hard to remember the highlights now , but in no particular order. I went down to the ringside to look at Gargantua Jim Moran and he leered over the top rope at me. Just seemed to be the biggest man I had ever seen and for me every bit as tall as Haystacks. Being in the North it was great to have seen McManus and Pallo live. I don't know anyone who was at Winsford on Kendo Nagasaki's home coming from Stampede when he beat an unbeaten Guardsman for TV. At least I believed he was unbeaten but certainly picked up a few pastings before becoming the invincible Big Daddy. For that matter the first view of Crabtree as the Guardsman was a sight to remember , in a way again he seemed a bigger man than heavies like Angus , Kirk and Bruno , but it soon became apparent that he was out of condition.
Angus too on first viewing seemed tremendously wild. And the most believable man ever for me was Hans Streiger followed close by Billy Howes. I saw a few Belle Vue debuts , Rocco , Marty Jones , Johnny Saint. Always enjoyed Adrian Street in the Hells Angels era and saw much of him and Bobby Barnes at the back of the Hall doing autographs from their campervan. A memory but the most underwhelming was one of Kendo's unmaskings of a fake White Angel. Loved Albert Wall bouts and such a solid man in his clothes outside. Must have caught Don Vines on a good night , he seemed such a powerhouse working over Gwyn Davies , yet seems to have done his best work in Germany.
Just for a couple of years I am so glad I went to so many venues , it gives an appreciation of the Industry itself. Belle Vue , Liverpool Stadium , Wryton Stadium , Hanley , Buxton Pavilion , Blackpool Tower and quite a few smaller ones , Forums and Town Halls right down to Pontins Ballroom.
I saw a lot , but also missed a lot. I often wonder how that can be. I never dreamed then of the greatness some guys would achieve as they grew older. Wrestlers like Tony StClair , Wayne Bridges and Ray Steel. A wrestler has quite a journey.
So many great value wrestlers too, Abe Ginsberg and Colin Joynson never disappointed and many more .
One last name of a guy not talked about on here , will never forget the energy of Goro Tanaka , he was on same level as Rocco in my eyes.
Nice memories
Thanks Frank. A good question to get us thinking. And a good opportunity for shy readers to get in and make their first post.
I can't match the splendid reply from Norfolk Snake, he's set us a real challenge.
One problem I have is that so many others seem to have so many specific memories that I can't match, maybe I'm just getting old. Well, not maybe. But of the things that stand out, some of which I have understandably mentioned before....
The first live wrestling show I went to, it was an 11th year old birthday present, the shock of the ring light coming on and the hall lights going out. I'd never thought of wrestling being in the dark. Not to mention the smoke from the cigarettes.
The entrance of the Wildman of Borneo on that first show was quite something. A slow walk with brave fans attempting to touch him. With hindsight we know he wasn't that big, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The Undertaker trying to get his opponent in the coffin that his assistant had helpfully placed in the corner of the ring.
Dominic Pye v Angus Campbell in June 1965. The match was brilliant and lived up to any expectation. The memory though is the size of the crowd. Arriving at our normal time me and my dad expecting the usual crowd found it extending across the front of Preston Public Hall, all the way down the side and around the back of the hall. Angus won, of course, when Dominic was disqualified.
I don't remember who was wrestling but all the lights went out and we were in complete darkness for a few minutes.
The first time I saw Klondyke Bill..
Andreas Svajik against Ian St John was a fantastic eight round draw the first time I saw it. And the second, and the third ....
Ditto Fred Woolley and Johnny Saint.
Bill Coverdale taking off the mask of the Ghoul after wrestling The Outlaw (or so they said).
In Joint rings Nagasaki and Albert Wall was a tremendous hard hitting bout.
Nagasaki against Clements. An unlikely sounding match. As brutal as it sounds. If ever a battering looked real this was one. Poor old Steve. I hope it wasn't as bad as it looked.
I've never hidden my support for the independents but recognise their failings and acknowledge Joint Promotions made the business respectable and authentic, yet memories of the independents are memories in colour while Joint are black and white.
Great post. I think the smashed watch trick was played out quite a few times.
For me as a kid, I only saw Haystacks once. I can recall seeing the dressing room door open at King's Lynn Corn Exchange and this enormous character loom out from the shadows, what a presence.
For awesome heat and great expectation was seeing Quinn v St Clair at the same venue not long after they had defected from Joints. The queue went right across the adjoining car park and the atmoshere was electric. Quinn was hated more than any other villain at that time I care to remember. What chemistry those two had. The only disappointment was quite a quick double knockout decission, but the action before that was immense.
Another moment of heat that nearly saw the hall explode was when Neil Sands jumped the ring in his regular clothes to challenge a devious Johnny Kincaid at the end of his bout. Kincaid promptly grabbed Neil's watch and smashed it to smithereens....very sadly Neil's watch was an engagement present from his wife...according to the MC. At that point the hall erupted and set them up nicely for a return match....It was the talking point for weeks after, how rotten and horrible Mr Kincaid was !!
Greatest 4 man KO tornament - again at Kings Lynn....would be everyones dream these days to have witnessed it. Rocco V Danny Collins first semi. Rocco wins after an awesome battle. He was being booed and shouted at but not with the usual venom and vigour. Secretly everyone was willing him on.No one wanted either Finlay or Rocco disqualified in their matches as they were all praying for the inevitable final. Would it happen was the thought as the 4 men were inroduced at the start ? By the time of the second semi, Fit Finlay v Steve Regal, the atmosphere was wired. Another titanic battle that Finlay dictated and won. The match was most memorable and filled with high drama as a punter jumped the ring and walloped Finlay (for real). As Finlay held Regal in a strangle hold, the bloke smashes Finlay in the cheek. Finlay shook himself, where most mortals would have been kocked out, rallied against the ropes and then unleashed himself. He went mad yet in a cool and calm way, smashing his assilant into next week as a bemused Regal stood watching with a wry smile on his face. The punter left via the back door, with a black eye, a swollen cheek and a bloody nose, threatening to bring back half of King's Lynn to finish Finlay. Needless to say he never returned. So the highly anticipated battle occurred; Finlay v Rocco. Strangely i can't recall who won, except it was everything you'd expect. I had seen them battle it out at Norwich weeks before too. Strangely this is where wrestling crowds and psychology of those in the ring sometimes are at odds. Despite all the expectations and the brutality being dished out in the ring, the crowd were a bit lost. Good v evil went out of the window as evil faced evil. Rocco was suddenly the 'blue eye'. It was great don't get me wrong, but no where near the reaction when Finlay or Rocco faced Cullen or Yamada or Collins or Jones, arguably 4 of the finest opponents they had.
Most humerous moment was seeing Catweazle v Magnificent Maurice (pre military Colnel Brody). Catweazle managed to do what no one imagined they d see in a Kings Lynn ring...shockingly hilarious at the time but deeply embarrasing for the Magnificent fellow, as his trunks got pulled right off, he got thrown with his trunks tangled around his ankles before Catweazle rolled him up for the winning pin !! Many of the women nearby in the crowd shouted out you aren't so magnificent after all.....
Danny Collins v young Irish Tony Stuart was one of the most spell binding, scientific, clean wrerstling matches I ever saw. An 8 round draw - you could hear a pin drop, such was the captivation of the crowd.
Most shocking entrance at the time...was American Dream Chris Colt as he entered to take on Kung Fu. Ring entrances were hardly that striking at the time (apart from Big Daddy), but in he came with Highway to Hell by AC DC blaring out, swigging back beer spitting it high into the crowd, with a joint hanging out of his other hand, sudded dog collar around his neck, Alice Cooper make up weaping down his face - here was the man banned from TV wrestling ! Needless to say he was disqualified after a riotous affair. Hardly the ninth wonder of the world he was billed as but very entertaining and shocking at the time !
Most worrying moment was seeing a second sent sailing through the air after taking the full force of Chic Cullen's boot as he tried to prevent himself from taking a Rocco posting on the metal turnbuckles. The second had jumped up to re position the padding right at the wrong moment. He sailed through the air, landing in a heap in the aisle unconscious - it was definietly real - luckily he escaped serious injury - even Rocco looked concerned, well for a little while, until the bout was then announced as abandoned as the ambulance people carted the poor ol second to the QE hospital.
Another great bout with huge heat, fully packed crowd and long queues to get in was Rocco v Yamada in a title match - what a battle that was ! no quarter given by either. Huge bumps, inside the ring, outside the ring, blood, highs, lows, it had verything and more that Rocco bouts usually had. What a match.
Thats my lot for now !