Hello everyone saw this online, cannot figure out what promotion it actually was. Whose champ he was in the late 1950s? Doesn't look like it was JP's. Help appreciated. Thanks. R
We tend to look at decades in one long span, or at least a first half and a second, but in the late 40's early 50's every year has its own story. While the bills overall can look the same, every promoter is trying a lot of things to draw fans.
You will find certain regions of the country had their own champions, who would not be mentioned as a champion in a neighbouring region. It looks confusing in hindsight, but they weren't thinking about anyone looking back at it.
You will also struggle to find in print many mentions of "Joint Promotions" at that time also.
"...His defeat of Joe Reid at Newcastle in 1948 led to recognistion in northern parts as Britsh and European champion, but in those days, of course, there was no nationally recognised set of champions..."
Thanks Ron, fantastic find, appreciate. Says licensed by the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain. In circa 1952 who was running that company/promotion? Thak you again. R
Yes and Somehow I don't think everyone was involved and Mr and Mrs Rogers held out at Belle Vue twice a week filling the Hall with Wrestlers. Don't know the full politics how maybe some wrestled for them and the Federation but for example I don't think the Roger's ever got their hands on Bomber Bates and Bartelli. Joint eventually got in I think in 1957. Exactly how many more like this there was I have no idea.
Francis Gregory and Vic Hessle seemed to have no problem working for Rogers or Morrell. Not Sure if Jack Pye did much with Morrell but he was regular for Dick Rogers. But maybe Jack wanted Lancashire re travel.
The long handbill (cut, above), the in-Ashfield locations, and the detailed paragraphs bear all the hallmarks of a Frank Woodhouse (Senior) promotion. However, Coates promoted also at Kirkby and, in addition to the Joint Promotions names on this bill, used other JP wrestlers such as Bartelli, Hussey, Masambula, Billy Joyce, Royals, Mancelli alongside names we associate with independent bills.
A name that catches my eye is Brian Burke. He was a Dale Martin wrestler from 1956 but in 1962 this Newtown man morphed into the delighfully re-named Dave Newman and wrestled out his career on independent bills.
Woodhouse was a buddy of Jack Atherton who of course accessed Billy Riley's protegés.
Putting 2+2, I could imagine that Coates was a mere front for some gleeful moonlighting outside JP for one and all; under the auspices of Frank Woodhouse and with the backing of Riley and Atherton. Perhaps with Brian Burke playing a central role.
Less clear is what Tony Mancelli was doing amongst these guys, in the absence of any fellow southerners? But this is interesting in itself.
These Coates bills continued for many many years and defy the logic we have at our disposal.
PS Hack: Do you really mean Masambula v Peter Preston ring builder? (Just to prove I do read your posts)
Hack, Ron thanks. it is JP then, but yes I am surprised to see Belshaw the Brit champ. I would guess it was some of the Riley's pupils around that time...just like with most of the other weight divisions. Often time they put worlds or euros on some other people but Brit titles mostly were owned by the Riley men.
Main Mask has posted many of these Joe Coates handbills from Sutton in Ashfield and Kirkby in Sheffield. As Ron says there were quite a few local men who had arrangements to use Joint men. These are all Joint wrestlers, though I am surprised to see Cliff Belshaw as champion at this time
Billy Shinfield had a long relationship with Morrell. He was the man left to carry the can and pay the fine for being the ring builder for the Masambula v Peter Preston match.
I am very surprised to see him a brit champ too. Could you please ask The main mask to check in his collection if he has Belshaw brit title holder in the 50s. Thanks R
We tend to look at decades in one long span, or at least a first half and a second, but in the late 40's early 50's every year has its own story. While the bills overall can look the same, every promoter is trying a lot of things to draw fans.
You will find certain regions of the country had their own champions, who would not be mentioned as a champion in a neighbouring region. It looks confusing in hindsight, but they weren't thinking about anyone looking back at it.
You will also struggle to find in print many mentions of "Joint Promotions" at that time also.
From the A - Z section on Cliff Belshaw:
"...His defeat of Joe Reid at Newcastle in 1948 led to recognistion in northern parts as Britsh and European champion, but in those days, of course, there was no nationally recognised set of champions..."
For Ruslan , Cliff Belshaw , Welterweight Champion of Great Britain 1952.
1952 , a tricky period before Joint was properly cemented together. But he had been Morrell's Champ in 1947
The long handbill (cut, above), the in-Ashfield locations, and the detailed paragraphs bear all the hallmarks of a Frank Woodhouse (Senior) promotion. However, Coates promoted also at Kirkby and, in addition to the Joint Promotions names on this bill, used other JP wrestlers such as Bartelli, Hussey, Masambula, Billy Joyce, Royals, Mancelli alongside names we associate with independent bills.
A name that catches my eye is Brian Burke. He was a Dale Martin wrestler from 1956 but in 1962 this Newtown man morphed into the delighfully re-named Dave Newman and wrestled out his career on independent bills.
Woodhouse was a buddy of Jack Atherton who of course accessed Billy Riley's protegés.
Putting 2+2, I could imagine that Coates was a mere front for some gleeful moonlighting outside JP for one and all; under the auspices of Frank Woodhouse and with the backing of Riley and Atherton. Perhaps with Brian Burke playing a central role.
Less clear is what Tony Mancelli was doing amongst these guys, in the absence of any fellow southerners? But this is interesting in itself.
These Coates bills continued for many many years and defy the logic we have at our disposal.
PS Hack: Do you really mean Masambula v Peter Preston ring builder? (Just to prove I do read your posts)
Now these make sense. Lewis world champ, Riley's man Brit champ. Typical 50s JP.
Hack, Ron thanks. it is JP then, but yes I am surprised to see Belshaw the Brit champ. I would guess it was some of the Riley's pupils around that time...just like with most of the other weight divisions. Often time they put worlds or euros on some other people but Brit titles mostly were owned by the Riley men.
Main Mask has posted many of these Joe Coates handbills from Sutton in Ashfield and Kirkby in Sheffield. As Ron says there were quite a few local men who had arrangements to use Joint men. These are all Joint wrestlers, though I am surprised to see Cliff Belshaw as champion at this time
Billy Shinfield had a long relationship with Morrell. He was the man left to carry the can and pay the fine for being the ring builder for the Masambula v Peter Preston match.
Some people like Riley and Atherton and Jim Smith were still attached to Joint.
Seems Billy Shinfield was as well.