Billy Joyce is one of my pet projects this year and I thought I'd share some interesting tidbits with others as I work through his career, along with some questions for the more knowledgeable along the way. The earliest appearance I have for him is 21 July 1939, under the name of "Ben Joyce", and based on the description his overall debut being at somepoint in early 1939 seems likely. One of a few big names with 5 wrestling decades under their belt. I discovered that he gained a lot of weight as the years passed by in order to move up divisions and become the heavyweight he's best known as today. An accomplishment in & of itself considering the food rationing of the WWII years. Starting off as a billed welterweight in early 1941:
From there we have a show from 28 February where he defeats Jack Stevens 2-1 and is described as challenging any wrestler up to 12 stone. I'm not sure what the weight division cutoffs were pre-Mountevans so is this still Welterweight or Middleweight? Clarification is crucial in order to gain context on the "best at his weight" descriptor frequently used for Joyce, including soon after on 21 March for the final Preston Rink show:
13 January 1942 we have the apparent first sighting of a match vs older brother Joe Robinson. The description makes this seem like a must watch for me:
Joyce's most frequent opponent between 40-42 appears to be a Northern Irish heel by the name of Pat Cavanagh (or Kavanagh). A frequent rule breaker who appeared often with Joyce, Joe Robinson, and Billy Riley on cards. I'd be curious to learn anything more about him. In 1943, from the middle of the year to the end, we see a step up in the name value of Joyce's opponents with matchups against the likes of Bert Mansfield, Carl Van Wurden, Francis St Clair Gregory, George Gregory, and others. This seems to indicate another bump up in weight for Joyce to Light Heavyweight & above, which is confirmed here:
1944 sees Taffy Jones as his most frequent opponent and more comments about Joyce being the best England has to offer at his weight:
1945-46 has the likes of Jack Atherton and Pado Peltonin as frequent opponents along with other interesting names such as Jan Blears (James Blears billed as a Dutchman before moving across the pond by June), Francois Miquet (who I believe is the same Frenchmen known for his work in the US as part of the Corsicans tag team), and Andre Drapp who was soon to be a major star in France. The year ends, according to the review on the main site, with Joyce listed as the no 5 challenger for the vacant Light Heavy title in Mat Magazine. These shows are from 1946:
My questions:
1) Can anyone clarify the weight cutoff for different divisions in this pre-Mountevans era?
2) Do we have any more information on Pat C/Kavanagh?
3) Do we have a clipping for the title & challengers list from Mat Magazine Dec 1946? If so, I'd be very grateful if it was shared so I could add it to my records.
Thanks in advance,
Ethan Tyler
Andre Drappe bottom of the bill here versus Billy Joyce has several excellent matches on You Tube
Things have gone quiet from you Ethan. Maybe you're beavering away or annoyances like life have got in the way, but please don't let your research just wither away. You've done a great job so far. Billy Joyce was one of my favourites, though I saw him only near the end of his long and illustrious career.
British Wrestling Board of Control?
The weight divisions stated by Oakeley in December 1930 as below, very similar to Mike Hallinan's listing on the All-In Wrestling site. But you will see the inclusion of the Junior Heavyweight class makes a nonsense of this. Where the problem occurred, I would guess with the publisher, I don't know. In a 1938 programme he has British lightweight and welterweight championship matches and is using the same weight divsions as below.
None of this had any regulation and so there was nothing to stop other promoters using different weight divisions, as in the 1930s promoters used various rules (e.g. one knockout or two).
The December 1946 Mat Review below, poor quality
The following month, January, 1947, in a report of the Mountevans Committee
Below, a January 1951 Mat Review magazine by Morrell, which states these are the Mountevans divisions and champions.
Can't fault all your great research Ethan , and Welcome.
Ben Joyce 1939 July might be Billy at Preston , but how would we ever know.
No central body in those days for Britsh wrestling so I suspect for billing purposes they may have followed "Catch". Lightweight up to 140Ibs ,Under 148 Ibs Welterweight
Up tp 160lbs for middle.
They may have use 168 or 175 for light heavy and after that I guess it was all heavy.
Lets face it they did not get weighed anyway.
I did expect to find Billy Joyce as near as Bolton in 1939 , but alas no.
His brother Joe , a full 14 years older was Stadium Champ there at Welter.
Wonder what the Belt was.
I will come back if I can glean anything on Pat Kavanagh.
While listed in the "Featherweight" names, above, both Johnny Summers and Alf Jenkins were being billed as British Lightweight Champion, in 1946.
That's the trouble with Pro-Wrestling, of course, hard to keep track of what really happened!
😄
Hi Ethan,
The weight divisions/cut off may be mentioned in the book "Blue Blood on the Mat", which I used to have, but don't any longer. However, some people on here might have that.
Can't help with Pat Kavanagh/Cavanagh, so far, sorry.
For titles and challengers, do you mean for the Welterweight title? If so, I think Norman Morrell was Welterchamp during that time.
Middleweight, it looks like Jack Dale and Cliff Belshaw were both claiming the title in 1946.
Cliff's brother, Jack Beaumont was claiming the Light Heavy title and Heavyweight would have been Bert Assirati.