Ringsport was launched in August 1959. Proprietor was Evan Traharne, a lovely man who ran the business from his little terraced house, 5 Stockland Street in Caerphilly, South Wales.
The magazine has a fascinating history and survived against the odds.
Tibor was Hungarian but Gordon was from a Commonwealth country, at a time when Commonwealth countries lived under the wing of Mother UK and were entitled to citizenship. Consider the Windrush generation - same thing.
I don't see it as strange that Gordon was a challenger at that time. Twenty years later and perceptions (and maybe legislation?) were different.
Les Kellet, the toughest man of all of them, very interesting subject, my recent discovery his cruiserweight championship, I have heard he was a prisoner of war, and spent time in Japanese concentration camp, not sure it that's accurate.
Billy Joyce beating Gordon Nelson for the British title has long been the perceived wisdom. Gordon Solie lists it as a title match, as does wrestling-titles.com, and so does Heritage. Assirati had been stripped of the title by Joint Promotions so there was no champion to defeat.
But it is an oddity. Gordon Nelson was Canadian and always billed as Canadian. Not a naturalised Brit like Tibor who challenged for the title.
I have never seen any evidence of this match. Maybe Hisa would like to post here if he found any evidence.
But I do have undocumented results that suggest it may well be true.
Here are the results of the Championship show at Lime Grove on 15th April, 1958
Ernie Riley 1-0 Ron Johnson
Gordon Nelson 1-0 Francis Sullivan
Billy Joyce 1-0 Dai Sullivan
Sandy Orford 1-0 Mitchell
Gordon Nelson beat Ernie Riley
Billy Joyce beat Sandy Orford
Billy Joyce beat . Nelson
Okay, we all now realise that undocumented results can prove false unless we have newspaper evidence, which in this case is missing.
But then it gets interesting.
Look at the results from Lime Grove one week earlier, 8th April
Gordon Nelson beat Jack Beaumont
Francis Sullivan beat Billy Robinson
Billy Joyce beat Eric Taylor
Ernie Riley beat Arthur Ricardo
Erm, that's right. The four winners were back the following week for the championship tournament.
Next step go back another week to look for the other four winners.
Disappointing. There was a show, but none of our wanted four. Same the previous week, and the week before that ....
Until ....
Seymour Hall, 14th April, 1958, the night before the championship match
Dai Sullivan beat Bill McDonald
Dennis Mitchell beat Masambula
Sandy Orford beat John Allan
Ron Johnson beat Cyril Morris
Bingo! Put our four winners in with the previous weeks winners and we have 16 man knock out tournament (and with the even less plausible possibility of Masambula becoming our Heavyweight Champion).
That doesn't offer a solution of how a Canadian could fight for the British title (other than this is wrestling), but three linked undocumented shows must increase the credibility of all three.
Don't fall asleep yet. There's more. The three shows Ruslan indicates above are all Morrell shows. Lime Grove was a Morrell oasis in the heart of Dale Martin land.
So how does Seymour Hall fit in with this?
Here's how.
I couldn't find a Seymour Hall advert for 1958, but did find one for 1957.
Look at the promoters. Dale Martin and Norman Morrell.
Now just why Norman Morrell would have arranged a show in which a Canadian fought for the British title remains a great wrestling mystery.
Basically we have a title and belt holder change in between May 23rd and June 28th of 1958. I wonder what happened. Any info on this matter is highly appreciated.
June, September, October of 1958 Billy Joyce is billed British Heavyweight Champion and Holder of the Lord Mount Evans Belt. In 1958 there was NO Morell/Mountevans Belts around so I am assuming he was given Ernest Baldwin's real original Silver Lord Mount Evans Belt. Another question is when/where/circumstances of the title change. The victory in the International KO Tourney and win over Canadian Gordon Nelson in the final match of that event sure cannot be considered as the basis for the British Hwt Championship title change. As Ric Flair once said - TO BE THE CHAMP YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE CHAMP. That's the general rule of Prize Ring.
when was that pic of Joyce with the trophy cup made? and is it even related to his championship (claims)? Thanks.
Ringsport was launched in August 1959. Proprietor was Evan Traharne, a lovely man who ran the business from his little terraced house, 5 Stockland Street in Caerphilly, South Wales.
The magazine has a fascinating history and survived against the odds.
The Magazine That Was Different
Hi Rulan, I don't know about Ringsport, but The Ring was.
I am going to give you a guess Ruslan. Don't know where but I think 1961.
Reason.......Issue 106 = March 1960
This issue is 163 and I think it was weekly so maybe April 1961.
I will add though that there are people out there who collect and maybe could give us a better idea.
Tibor was Hungarian but Gordon was from a Commonwealth country, at a time when Commonwealth countries lived under the wing of Mother UK and were entitled to citizenship. Consider the Windrush generation - same thing.
I don't see it as strange that Gordon was a challenger at that time. Twenty years later and perceptions (and maybe legislation?) were different.
Les Kellet, the toughest man of all of them, very interesting subject, my recent discovery his cruiserweight championship, I have heard he was a prisoner of war, and spent time in Japanese concentration camp, not sure it that's accurate.
Ruslan ,you asked why Baldwin vacated the title.
In case you haven't had an answer, he broke his leg in a bout about that time.
You often see Kellett billed from Edinburgh. I once thought that he was born there, but evidently he spent a lot of time there during the war years.
yes in fact sometimes you see Les Kellet being billed from Edinburgh, Scotland.
Wonder if one of Gorden Nelson's parents were British or even grandparents.
or do we say Nonsense was allowed because it was only wrestling.
That's a great detective effort Hack.
Billy Joyce beating Gordon Nelson for the British title has long been the perceived wisdom. Gordon Solie lists it as a title match, as does wrestling-titles.com, and so does Heritage. Assirati had been stripped of the title by Joint Promotions so there was no champion to defeat.
But it is an oddity. Gordon Nelson was Canadian and always billed as Canadian. Not a naturalised Brit like Tibor who challenged for the title.
I have never seen any evidence of this match. Maybe Hisa would like to post here if he found any evidence.
But I do have undocumented results that suggest it may well be true.
Here are the results of the Championship show at Lime Grove on 15th April, 1958
Ernie Riley 1-0 Ron Johnson
Gordon Nelson 1-0 Francis Sullivan
Billy Joyce 1-0 Dai Sullivan
Sandy Orford 1-0 Mitchell
Gordon Nelson beat Ernie Riley
Billy Joyce beat Sandy Orford
Billy Joyce beat . Nelson
Okay, we all now realise that undocumented results can prove false unless we have newspaper evidence, which in this case is missing.
But then it gets interesting.
Look at the results from Lime Grove one week earlier, 8th April
Gordon Nelson beat Jack Beaumont
Francis Sullivan beat Billy Robinson
Billy Joyce beat Eric Taylor
Ernie Riley beat Arthur Ricardo
Erm, that's right. The four winners were back the following week for the championship tournament.
Next step go back another week to look for the other four winners.
Disappointing. There was a show, but none of our wanted four. Same the previous week, and the week before that ....
Until ....
Seymour Hall, 14th April, 1958, the night before the championship match
Dai Sullivan beat Bill McDonald
Dennis Mitchell beat Masambula
Sandy Orford beat John Allan
Ron Johnson beat Cyril Morris
Bingo! Put our four winners in with the previous weeks winners and we have 16 man knock out tournament (and with the even less plausible possibility of Masambula becoming our Heavyweight Champion).
That doesn't offer a solution of how a Canadian could fight for the British title (other than this is wrestling), but three linked undocumented shows must increase the credibility of all three.
Don't fall asleep yet. There's more. The three shows Ruslan indicates above are all Morrell shows. Lime Grove was a Morrell oasis in the heart of Dale Martin land.
So how does Seymour Hall fit in with this?
Here's how.
I couldn't find a Seymour Hall advert for 1958, but did find one for 1957.
Look at the promoters. Dale Martin and Norman Morrell.
Now just why Norman Morrell would have arranged a show in which a Canadian fought for the British title remains a great wrestling mystery.
There is one attempt at a lineage on Wiki. here it is and some of it is O.K.
Might interest you Ruslan.
But I can certainly shoot some of it down in Flames.
Billy Robinson had the title before being mentioned here.
I think , in wrestling , if the title was not at stake then the mention that you were a champion was not always a given,
Read the A-Z for Billy Joyce which directs you to extra info.
Baldwin vacated and a knockout decided Joyce in April 1958.
The Tournament at Lime Grove was for the British Heavyweight Championship.
I can shed no light on if Gordon Nelson , who he beat in the final , had a British passport. But Wrestling has always been tongue in cheek.
Basically we have a title and belt holder change in between May 23rd and June 28th of 1958. I wonder what happened. Any info on this matter is highly appreciated.
June, September, October of 1958 Billy Joyce is billed British Heavyweight Champion and Holder of the Lord Mount Evans Belt. In 1958 there was NO Morell/Mountevans Belts around so I am assuming he was given Ernest Baldwin's real original Silver Lord Mount Evans Belt. Another question is when/where/circumstances of the title change. The victory in the International KO Tourney and win over Canadian Gordon Nelson in the final match of that event sure cannot be considered as the basis for the British Hwt Championship title change. As Ric Flair once said - TO BE THE CHAMP YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE CHAMP. That's the general rule of Prize Ring.