I read the article on Billy Robinson in Stampede and have a few first hand comments. Billy's first match in Edmonton was against a lower card wrestler who he easily disposed of. The promoter, Stu Hart, had a formula for building up stars by having them matched against progressively better wrestlers until they reached main event status. The top star at the time was Archie "The Stomper" Gouldie. Archie was the real deal - extremely fit, tough as nails and a talented wrestler (trained by Stu Hart in the Dungeon). The year before Billy arrived, I saw Archie take the NWA World Champion, Dory Funk, to the point of defeat before being disqualified.
Now this is where the story takes a turn with the arrival of Billy Robinson to the territory. Archie was planning on dropping the belt as he was leaving to go to the US. The plan was for The Stomper to wrestle Billy before Dory Funk arrived and turn back the challenge. Archie would then face Dory Funk for the second year in a row and presumably go to a draw or a disqualification. After Dory had left the territory, Archie would drop the belt to Robinson and also leave the territory. As has been reported,. Archie's match with Billy did not go as planned. Billy refused to sell any of Archie's offence. Archie had a temper but, rather than retaliate, he simply rolled out of the ring and told Stu Hart he was quitting early.
There is blame on both sides. Pro Wrestling is scripted and selling is an essential part of the game. Billy's ego and desire to show off led him to deviate from the script. Likewise Archie should not have just up and quit. I am positive Archie could have handled himself in a shoot. He was bigger and stronger than Billy and had been trained by Stu Hart himself. Another Stampede star, Dan Kroffat wrestled both Billy and Archie several times. He is on record as saying Archie was the consummate professional who knew how to sell tickets and make money. Indeed, Archie went on to be a main event wrestler wherever he went. Billy was equally talented but had an ego and wanted to prove he was better than everyone else - hence the comments about being a bully. He too became a main eventer wherever he went.
Now on to Billy challenging the NWA World Champion! I saw Billy go to a one hour draw with Dory Funk in Edmonton. It was a fantastic match, probably the best technical match I have ever seen. Billy had moves and holds that were fresh and innovative. And Dory proved why the NWA trusted him as their World Champion. He could go against anyone. The sell-out crowd loved it. The following week, Billy and Dory had a rematch with a 90 minute time limit. It too was a sell-out. I can't remember exactly what the finish was, but Billy was either "knocked out" or "injured" before the time limit expired. These are two matches I will never forget! Now a word of caution...there are some matches of Billy vs Dory on YouTube. Sadly, these matches were much later in their careers and show two wrestlers well past their prime. They do not hold a candle to the matches I saw in Stampede.
Postscript. I think Billy learned a valuable lesson from the Archie incident. In a subsequent match, I saw him face a pretty green wrestler named Derrell Cochran. Billy could have pinned the guy in two minutes but carried the match and gave the kid a 45 minute lesson in ring psychology. Oh, and Billy actually let the kid get in some offence 😁.
Billy also had some tremendous matches with Abdullah the Butcher in Stampede but that's another story.
Of the four, i saw Danny Lynch, who actually worked the south. Streiger, Angus and Thornton were strictly northern men. Danny was on the inde circuit when i saw him, but still bleeding......................
I'm very much enjoying johnnybegood51's insight.
No disrespect to Billy Robinson, but Archie could shoot too. After his initial training in the dungeon in 1962, Stu Hart sent him to Kansas territory for additional training (hooking as it was called back then) under Pat O'Conner and Lou Thesz. By 1969, when Billy arrived in Stampede, Archie had already wrestled Pat O'Conner many times as well as Harley Race, Lou Thesz, Gene Kiniski, and Dory Funk Jr (the latter three for the NWA World Championship). And Archie could go sixty minutes all day long.
It's always tricky when discussing a wrestler's pro wrestling skills and then mixing in their shoot background. While a wrestler may be skilled in both, shoot fighting is the antithesis of pro wrestling which depends on trusting your opponent with your body while convincing the fans it is real. I understand that most of the members here cherish their old school British wrestlers and rightly so. Count me as a fan of Billy Robinson, Kendo Nagasaki, Les Thornton, Geoff Portz, and The Dynamite Kid. But to say Billy would have torn Archie to shreds is wishful thinking.
As regards the comment that Stu could not start a hold from standing position, age must be taken into account. By 1972, Stu was in his fifties and had arthritis and bad knees. So starting from a standing position was not really an option for Stu at that time.
I wonder if this was the match in question. I think it is quite a small venue on the Loop.
>Pro Wrestling is scripted and selling is an essential part of the game. Billy's ego and desire to show off led him to deviate from the script. Billy, like Bert Assirati or George Tragos (Thesz's trainer in the 30s) had his own system of ethics. At this point, jobbing to an inferior shooter or actual non shooter was seen by the likes of Billy as a self-betrayal analagous to taking a dive in a pro boxing match. >Likewise Archie should not have just up and quit. I am positive Archie could have handled himself in a shoot. He was bigger and stronger than Billy and had been trained by Stu Hart himself. Billy was a Riley's Gym man. He would have torn Archie to shreds and probably could handle Stu himself. Lou Thesz once said that Stu was a great demonstrator of holds - he knew how to do the finishing positions of many brutal hooks if you got down on the mat and let him put them on you - but didn't know how to compete for the holds from a standing start. Robinson's old training partner Kendo Nagasaki was taken downstairs to the Dungeon and told to get down on the mat so Stu could show him some holds. Kendo insisited on standing up and asking Stu to get him down on the mat and into the hold. Stu backed off and muttered how his holds weren't much good anyway, Big and strong is IRRELEVANT to how good a shooter someone is. Johnny Saint could tear out Giant Haystacks' joints in seconds.
As time went on, Billy adapted his attitude to become more like American shooters who would put over an inferior opponent if they were given a high enough bribe - which is where the concept of "doing business" comes from.
What a superb addition to our forum, and I'm sure we will get round to adding it to the main site article. Ron must be feeling pretty chuffed too as your memories confirm all his research. When Heritage started we had a slogan "It's all about the memories." That's true, but as time has passed and we are all getting older it's inevitable the site has become much more than that. Your post has shown us once again that it really is all about the memories.
Lovely write up Johnny , Stampede being my favourite non British Promotion. So many of our guys went there and we had the Hart's here.
I had another go at Billy in Stampede a good few years back.
With the Calgary Loop spanning a couple of territories a couple of the Cities are hard to find newspapers for to get a full picture.
https://www.wrestlingheritage.com/billyrobinsonstampededays