Dai Sullivan (Frank Morgan) told me Assirati was not a nice man.He would always try to hurt his opponent for no good reason.When asked why he just shrugged and walked away.
Yes William , Gerry was a funny one really because his career was short but his power was there for all to see in the pictures of him.
There is also another angle on comparing the past in that for example Boxing , there is no way Rocky Marciano could have beaten the great heavies of later years. they become too big and heavy and have the punch power to destroy.
Old champs would only have been cruiserweights today.
Assirati had the weight , but someone really big might find him easy to knock about , it's hard to say and a question of styles. Pat Roach would have towered Assirati.
You cannot discount men who enjoy pain , but somewhere there will be better.
Watched a Ric Flair interview recently and claims Bruiser Brody was the man.
I took a look at Brody and he looked about six six.
Flair reckoned he would have handled Andre the Giant.
If wrestling was an industry and the employers have a duty of care , one wonders why it is o.k. for Assirati to decide a drop of claret and a broken nose is o.k. and if you don't like it then don't be a wrester.
Stories like that don't help me to hold him in great esteem.
A good wrestler should be loved by his fellow workers.
Hi Ron, there is a published report of Gerry Hoggarth achieving an arm and leg submission hold on Bert Assirati (see “Iron Man of The Lakes” article on the site). A couple of years ago, aged 95, he offered to demonstrate the move on me, but wisely for both of us I think, I declined. Gerry wasn’t a fan of Bert.
Hi Gentlemen, I am back, yes I am not into "shoots" stuff either. I never believed it...but after my research of the earliest years of catch pro wrestling the 1830s and 1840s...it turned my "belief" in something more solid...a KNOWLEDGE.
To me the most important is to figure out which exactly title one or another wrestler held...to say British champion...without adding the name of promotion/or rules isn't really helpful.
Doug Clark in 1931 won open to all Britsh pro wrestlers catch wrestling (under amateur rules falls or points) tourney in London, he beat Oakleley in the final. It was his first "pro wrestling" title. Prior to that his main wrestling focus was Cumbrian Back-Hold.
in the 1930s there were at least 3 legit pro wrestling rulesets...
All-in of Relw
XX c CACC of Oakeley
Pro Free Style of Bankier....
whose champ was Gregory and where/when/from whom he won it (if that happened in ring) or was awarded it...to find that out is my ultimate goal.
I don't really go in for all this shoot stuff , but I would say by the early 1940's it would have been hard to hurt Assirati. I am not sure if any submission hold could have worked on him.
I get the impression that in the 1930's he just was not a polished enough wrestler to really get anywhere.
He left the game I believe and then came back.
I have heard that Billy Riley would not touch him as he was too solid and stiff to get holds on.
The biggest guy we had up north to give him a grounding was George Gregory , but even George was not a real big heavy. (heavy for a catch wrestler)
I should imagine that Bert , working as a doorman or any other conflict , if he grabbed someone , they stayed grabbed. When somebody is that strong there is not much you can do against them.
I think there might have been some hype with Sherry , he did not turn out that often and wanted big money. Oakeley built his persona if I am guessing.
While Sherry was here . I don't rate that period as peak Assirati. That came later.
I did know a guy who knew Assirati to a small extent and he told me that here in Manchester they called him the Ratter. He could be nasty.
Bill Robinson talked of Assirati's hardness , I think we all look up to legends of an older generation.
Assirati must have had a sense of humour , his Music hall act was Strength/Comedy known as Tumbling.
I think he was in a show called The Mirthquake.
If you want to push me , I don't call this a Catch Shoot match , but I bet Assirati could have got hold of Sherry and just held him tight until he had had enough.
It's all a long time ago and I am not so sure if it will ever become clearer.
Speculating is just a bit of fun.
I will throw a name at you. Dave "Fit" Finlay would be a good bet to have sorted Sherry.
Thanks, Main Mask and from then on on the 1937 tour he was more prepared to lose and soon took some good paydays to lose to Sherry in England.
He also lost to Cowboy Bob Russell in New Zealand.
Lurich was a promoter and they worked Blood and Riots into their fights to take it all to a new level.
Doug as a Westmorland Champ, I don't think, was willing to sell to anyone in Britain on the basis that they simply were not better than him if it was for real.
Doug was a master of the Hip throw.
The issue about George Gregory being champ , in my opinion is simply that for some promoters he was interim champ while Doug Clark was unable to defend whilst on tour.
2 falls, subs, KO was a "new" invention from the early 1930s, which was backed by some 1920s wrestling traditions of foreign (not of British) origin...which weren't backed by anything.
In addition to my previous post Frank told me that Lou Thesz was a gentleman,and a great wrestler,possibly the best he ever faced
Dai Sullivan (Frank Morgan) told me Assirati was not a nice man.He would always try to hurt his opponent for no good reason.When asked why he just shrugged and walked away.
Yes William , Gerry was a funny one really because his career was short but his power was there for all to see in the pictures of him.
There is also another angle on comparing the past in that for example Boxing , there is no way Rocky Marciano could have beaten the great heavies of later years. they become too big and heavy and have the punch power to destroy.
Old champs would only have been cruiserweights today.
Assirati had the weight , but someone really big might find him easy to knock about , it's hard to say and a question of styles. Pat Roach would have towered Assirati.
You cannot discount men who enjoy pain , but somewhere there will be better.
Watched a Ric Flair interview recently and claims Bruiser Brody was the man.
I took a look at Brody and he looked about six six.
Flair reckoned he would have handled Andre the Giant.
If wrestling was an industry and the employers have a duty of care , one wonders why it is o.k. for Assirati to decide a drop of claret and a broken nose is o.k. and if you don't like it then don't be a wrester.
Stories like that don't help me to hold him in great esteem.
A good wrestler should be loved by his fellow workers.
Hi Ron, there is a published report of Gerry Hoggarth achieving an arm and leg submission hold on Bert Assirati (see “Iron Man of The Lakes” article on the site). A couple of years ago, aged 95, he offered to demonstrate the move on me, but wisely for both of us I think, I declined. Gerry wasn’t a fan of Bert.
Hi Gentlemen, I am back, yes I am not into "shoots" stuff either. I never believed it...but after my research of the earliest years of catch pro wrestling the 1830s and 1840s...it turned my "belief" in something more solid...a KNOWLEDGE.
To me the most important is to figure out which exactly title one or another wrestler held...to say British champion...without adding the name of promotion/or rules isn't really helpful.
Doug Clark in 1931 won open to all Britsh pro wrestlers catch wrestling (under amateur rules falls or points) tourney in London, he beat Oakleley in the final. It was his first "pro wrestling" title. Prior to that his main wrestling focus was Cumbrian Back-Hold.
in the 1930s there were at least 3 legit pro wrestling rulesets...
All-in of Relw
XX c CACC of Oakeley
Pro Free Style of Bankier....
whose champ was Gregory and where/when/from whom he won it (if that happened in ring) or was awarded it...to find that out is my ultimate goal.
Thanks,
R
I don't really go in for all this shoot stuff , but I would say by the early 1940's it would have been hard to hurt Assirati. I am not sure if any submission hold could have worked on him.
I get the impression that in the 1930's he just was not a polished enough wrestler to really get anywhere.
He left the game I believe and then came back.
I have heard that Billy Riley would not touch him as he was too solid and stiff to get holds on.
The biggest guy we had up north to give him a grounding was George Gregory , but even George was not a real big heavy. (heavy for a catch wrestler)
I should imagine that Bert , working as a doorman or any other conflict , if he grabbed someone , they stayed grabbed. When somebody is that strong there is not much you can do against them.
I think there might have been some hype with Sherry , he did not turn out that often and wanted big money. Oakeley built his persona if I am guessing.
While Sherry was here . I don't rate that period as peak Assirati. That came later.
I did know a guy who knew Assirati to a small extent and he told me that here in Manchester they called him the Ratter. He could be nasty.
Bill Robinson talked of Assirati's hardness , I think we all look up to legends of an older generation.
Assirati must have had a sense of humour , his Music hall act was Strength/Comedy known as Tumbling.
I think he was in a show called The Mirthquake.
If you want to push me , I don't call this a Catch Shoot match , but I bet Assirati could have got hold of Sherry and just held him tight until he had had enough.
It's all a long time ago and I am not so sure if it will ever become clearer.
Speculating is just a bit of fun.
I will throw a name at you. Dave "Fit" Finlay would be a good bet to have sorted Sherry.
Thanks, Main Mask and from then on on the 1937 tour he was more prepared to lose and soon took some good paydays to lose to Sherry in England.
He also lost to Cowboy Bob Russell in New Zealand.
Lurich was a promoter and they worked Blood and Riots into their fights to take it all to a new level.
Doug as a Westmorland Champ, I don't think, was willing to sell to anyone in Britain on the basis that they simply were not better than him if it was for real.
Doug was a master of the Hip throw.
The issue about George Gregory being champ , in my opinion is simply that for some promoters he was interim champ while Doug Clark was unable to defend whilst on tour.
I have never found Clark beaten by a British Man. Of course he was a promoter himself.
Born 1892 I am going to speculate that he lost to Tom Lurich in Australia in 1936.
So 43/44
2 falls, subs, KO was a "new" invention from the early 1930s, which was backed by some 1920s wrestling traditions of foreign (not of British) origin...which weren't backed by anything.
Hackenschmidt and Madrali, which was under a minute?