Britain's Biggest Promoter

Thanks Ballymoss and everyone. The question arose from a genuine conversation in which I said Dale Martin had the most shows and then a throwaway comment of more than the others combined. When asked if it was true they were biggest I couldn't prove it, of course, but felt everyone's opinion would be valuable. Concensus seems they were the biggest but not more than the others combined.

I agree Dale Martin certainly staged the most shows but I doubt if they had more than the other Joint Promotion members combined. They were obviously a very professional and well managed team, but for sheer panache and flair they were outmatched by Paul Lincoln. For quality wrestling in London, I believe Lime Grove, the sole London venue operated by Norman Morrell, took some beating. I regularly attended in the early to mid 1960's and witnessed the best Northern wrestlers tackling their Southern counterparts.The quality of wrestling was brilliant at Lime Grove and Morrell was rewarded with a full house, no doubt justifying the cost for the Yorkshire based promoter.

Nothing offended me about Dale Martin Anglo Italian. I've often said they were the most professional of all promoters and did more than anyone for the credibility of wrestling. I've also criticised them for putting on safe shows that lacked colour.

Now your turn to answer the questions as there's no one better placed. Did I really say that?

Were DM the biggest, in terms of number of shows?

Do you think they put on more shows annually than the other JP members combined?

Dale Martin certainly ran the most shows, though I do seem to recall we figured out here that the list in The Wrestler wasn't complete for all Joint Promotions events. Might have been conspiracy but just as likely that some of the Northern promoters weren't as good about getting a confirmed schedule to the publishers.

Here's a list of 'regular' Wryton venues they advertised as appearing at. How often they ran each of those venues is another story:

In the context of it all, very hard to knock Dale Martin decision-making. They got it right for longer and better than anyone.

Shame they all retired within a few years of each other.

But they knew and foresaw the VCR and change and probably even the www.

power is the money, money is the power, minute after minute, hour after hour. what was their most prestigious title? RAH annual trophy or the southern area hwt championship belt?

Here they claim forty a week, which is less than I remember seeing claimed on other occasions. Still more than any other Joint Promotion members.

Dale Martin always said they ran more than a dozen shows a night. The rest did one or two a night. Dale Martin definitely the biggest, and maybe more shows than the rest put together.

Dale Martin must surely have put on more shows than anyone. I would have said that Wryton might have given them a bit of a run in summer when they did the holiday camps, but for proper public shows it's got to be Dale Martin.

'Pends what you mean by 'Biggest'-HACK?-If you're talking about sheer VOLUME of Shows

regularly Staged-then DALE MARTIN must have been 'The' Contender on Numbers alone!

But if you mean-Tickets Sold/Arenas Filled to Capacity-then I'd have to say PAUL LINCOLN-

His Ingenious use of The GRANADA LEISURE CIRCUIT-where often 3000+ Fans could watch

Wrestling Shows in semi-luxury was a Masterstroke!

And don't forget he was 'penetrating' as far North as GRANADA RUGBY in the Midlands at least!

Northern Promoters didn't numerically have as many available Halls as MARTINS-though they

tried to counterbalance this by Staging 2 Shows per week at the Bigger Venues like BELLE VUE!

MAIN MASK

Wryton were obviously bending the rules and basing their claim as being part of Joint Promotions, clever twisted wording!

Hack, you talk avout your " northern bias against Dale Martin." What caused that - did Dale Martin offend you?

I think the common enemy was the independent promoters. So it just made sense to join up and they all managed to make it work, mostly.

Or maybe DM were skeptical it could all work, but after a year saw that it could.

Later we could say that Dale Martin had the tv contract, but in 1953 this was two years off. Maybe the hook-up was already eyeing inclusion in the new-fangled commercial tv set to launch a couple of years later.

There must have been some conflicting territory that needed to be sorted out. Morrell famously retained Lime Grove in the heart of London. Dale Martin stretched into the Midlands and beyond.

I agree, intriguing. We'll never know, only Joe D'Orazio would have an inkling.

I think it was purely a business reason. By being part of Joint it also gave Dale Martin a greater pool of wrestlers to work with which in turn meant more shows with greater variety so turnover increased as did the amount of shows and this would have peaked when TV took on Joint.

If this is number of shows in a given period, then yes Dale Martin I would think, if this was coverage (going all the way up to Scotland) then maybe Relwyskow?

But this goes back to the whole point of Joint Promotions, and as Ruslan says, did Dale Martin even need JP? Did Dale Martin feel that they had to join JP to ensure that Morrell didn't make a move into the South in a big way?

Fascinating stuff.

To give you an indication of the scale of the business Ruslan here are the London venues listed in Where We Watched Wrestling. This is just London. Dale Martin promoted across the south of England from Coventry down.

It is almost certainly not complete.

LONDON, ACTON Town Hall

LONDON, BARKING Assembly Hall

LONDON, BATTERSEA Town Hall

LONDON, BAYSWATER Porchester Hall

LONDON, BECKENHAM Baths

LONDON, BERMONDEY Baths

LONDON, BETHNAL GREEN York Hall

LONDON, BEXLEY Bexley Heath Drill Hall

LONDON, BLACKFRIARS The Ring

LONDON, BRIXTON Astoria Cinema

LONDON, BRUCE GROVE Cinema

LONDON, BURNT OAK Essoldo Cinema

LONDON, BURNT OAK Savoy Cinema

LONDON, CAMBERWELL Baths Hall

LONDON, CAMDEN Bedford Theatre

LONDON, CAMDEN Palace Dance Hall

LONDON, CATFORD The Embassy

LONDON, CATFORD Town Hall

LONDON, CHARLTON The Stadium

LONDON, CHELSEA Palace Theatre

LONDON, CHELSEA Town Hall

LONDON, CHINGFORD Classic Cinema

LONDON, CLAPHAM Winter Gardens

LONDON, CROYDON Civic Hall

LONDON, CROYDON Eldon Fab Club

LONDON, CROYDON Fairfield Halls

LONDON, CROYDON Lido

LONDON, DAGENHAM Roundhouse

LONDON, DEPTFORD Arena

LONDON, DEPTFORD Laurie Grove Bathssheer class."

LONDON, EALING Longhfield Hall (Ealing Public Baths)

LONDON, EAST HAM Baths

LONDON, EAST HAM Granada Cinema

LONDON, EAST HAM Winter Hall

LONDON, EDMONTON Alcazar

LONDON, EDMONTON Granada

LONDON, EDMONTON Pickett's Lock Centre

LONDON, EDMONTON Summer Theatre

LONDON, ELTHAM Eltham Baths

LONDON, FELTHAM Playhouse

LONDON, FINSBURY PARK Majestic Ballroom

LONDON, FINSBURY PARK Top Rank

LONDON, GOLDERS GREEN Odeon

LONDON, GREENFORD Granada

LONDON, HACKNEY Devonshire Hall

LONDON, HACKNEY Empire Theatre

LONDON, HAMMERSMITH Commodore

LONDON, HAMMERSMITH Lime Grove Baths

LONDON, HAMMERSMITH Palace Theatre

LONDON, HAMMERSMITH No 2

LONDON, HAMMERSMITH The Stadium

LONDON, HARINGEY Beresford Arena

LONDON, HARINGEY Harringay Arena

LONDON, HARINGEY Majestic, Finsbury Park

LONDON, HAYES Essoldo Theatre

LONDON, HAYES Savoy

LONDON, HENDON Magnet Billiards and Social Club

LONDON, HOLBORN Stadium

LONDON, HORNEY Town Hall

LONDON, HOUNSLOW Dominion

LONDON, ILFORD Baths

LONDON, ILFORD Town Hall

LONDON, ISLINGTON Essoldo Cinema, Caledonian Road

LONDON, ISLINGTON Collins Music Hall

LONDON, ISLINGTON Town Hall

LONDON, KENNINGTON Granada

LONDON, KENSINGTON Empress Stadium, Earls Court

LONDON, KENSINGTON Olympia

LONDON, KENSINGTON Royal Albert Hall

LONDON, KILBURN Vale Hall

LONDON, KINGSTON Coronation Ballroom

LONDON, KINGSTON Granada

LONDON, LEWISHAM Concert Hall

LONDON, LEWISHAM Town Hall

LONDON, LEYTON Baths

LONDON, MARYLEBONE London Sports Club (Lanes), Baker St.

LONDON, MERTON Civic Hall

LONDON, MILE END Arena

LONDON, PADDINGTON Baths

LONDON, PADDINGTON Essoldo

LONDON, PADDINGTON Porchester Hall

LONDON, PADDINGTON Seymour Hall

LONDON, PECKHAM Gaumont

LONDON, POPLAR Baths

LONDON, SHOREDITCH Naaz Cinema

LONDON, SHOREDITCH Town Hall

LONDON, SOUTHALL Dominion

LONDON, STEPNEY Pavilion

LONDON, STRAND Lyceum Ballroom

LONDON, STREATHAM Baths Hall

LONDON, STREATHAM Sports Arena

LONDON, TOOTING Granada

LONDON, TOTTENHAM Assembly Hall

LONDON, TOTTENHAM Baths

LONDON, TOTTENHAM Bruce Grove Cinema

LONDON, TOTTENHAM Municipal Hall

LONDON, TOWER HAMLETS Naz Cinema, Brick Lane

LONDON, TUFNELL PARK Palais de Danse

LONDON, TUFNELL PARK Stanley Hall

LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW Assembly Hall

LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW Baths

LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW Dominion Theatre

LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW Greyhound Stadium

LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW Town Hall

LONDON, WALWORTH Manor Place Baths

LONDON, WATFORD Town Hall

LONDON, WEMBLEY Arena

LONDON, WEST HAM Baths Hall

LONDON, WESTMINSTER Victoria Palace

LONDON, WHITE CITY White City

LONDON, WIMBLEDON Palais

LONDON, WIMBLEDON Town Hall

LONDON, WOOD GREEN Central Cinema

LONDON, WOOLWICH Granada

Population density has a lot to do with it, just think of how many venues were in London alone, Dale Martin could run a substantial amount of shows in a relatively compact area, this would make their territory very lucrative and so you would maximise the amount of dates in that area. It's more than likely Dale Martin

Brilliant question. And I will add a quick little one to it. If Dale/Martin were in fact the biggest British pro wrestling promotion why they even needed JP (which I understand was basically North in the persons of Relw, Morell, Wright), what was the purpose of joining organization which de facto is smaller in size and activity. Thanks again.