COUNT BARTELLI-DOG CHAIN MATCH!

Alan is genuinely deaf and went to a specialist deaf school in Sheffield. His second, in the ring, who famously would use sign language with Alan, between the rounds (which Kent Walton often commented on), was also deaf in real life (Jimmy Lapper). Alan was known to be genuinely tough and strong, and worked on the nightclub doors around Sheffield (including a stint with Eric Cutler, and one with big Jim Moran, probably the safest nightclub you could go in with those two on the door!).

There is a story of him going to one of the annual fairs in Sheffield (before he was famous) and taking on a Wrestler in the wrestling and boxing booth and Alan winning the five pound prize.

Last I heard he was playing pool for a couple of pub teams in the area.

I'm sure someone will know the answer to this: Was Alan Kilby really "deaf & dumb" as they put on the posters back then (non-PC expression nowadays)? And if he was, would that not make listening / talking to the referee or his opponent so difficult that it would be almost impossible to appear in a pro wrestling match...

Oh No!!-Just when we thought this had gone away!!-Here's another DOG CHAIN Match!-This time it's

SKULL MURPHY Chained wrist-to-wrist with ALAN KILBY!!

No way the SKULL could have got his Standing Submission Gator Hold on hampered like this!!

MAIN MASK

I remember seeing DD lose to Al Hayes several times - always by DQ so no unmasking. But much of what went on back then remains a mystery because The Wrestler only reported what we now refer to as storylines, so for example the Wild Man of Borneo would have been reported on as being exactly that - a wild creature from the jungles of Borneo! So I'm not too sure how much we should take its words as being totally gospel. Anything on Peter Maivia could well have been true but not for masked wrestlers - or those emanating from the jungle!!! The same applied to the American mags at the time and if anything, they were even worse!

As another example (I think I've mentioned this before) back then you could lose a championship in one venue while still be announced as champion in another. I remember seeing Al Hayes lose his Southern Area title at the Hackney Empire on the Saturday and see him announced as champion two days later in Leyton. So I very much doubt that records kept were particularly reliable.

As my prime contact with Hayes was to clean his beautiful red sports car, I never had the balls to ask him how it could happen that one minute he was champ, then he wasn't and then he was! Of course, looking back I'm pleased I never asked because it would have put him in a situation and I wouldn't have got a satisfactory answer anyway.

As far as I know Ost, DD was unmasked by Peter Maivia and then went around the country, being "unmasked". I guess you could get away with that on the pre-internet days.

He then becomes a masked Dr. Death again when he moved to Valencia in Spain, wrestling in various cities there.

So it's been inferred that this 'unmasking' was of the permanent type. I would've guessed it was a one night only situation, then the mask went back on. Like with the Zebra Kid.

I think the Doctor Death vs Peter Maivia match, with unmasking, is a bit of a mystery.

Firstly, Peter Maivia beats Dr. Death in a match in Bath, November 23rd, 1966, but I can't tell if this is a clean win or a disqualification, but I assume if a clean win, then Dr. Death unmasks?, after all, didn't the Paul Lincoln posters always declare "Doctor Death (Hollywood, USA), will unmask if defeated!", or something similar?

Dr. Death appears on bills after that date, I assume fully masked, and if he did unmask in 1966, wouldn't it have been in the wrestling magazines at that time?

While I have read that Paul Lincoln unmasked for the first time, in Colchester, against Peter Maivia, it was inferred that this was in the 70's, but that could have been factually incorrect.

Paul Lincoln pops up in the USA in 1970.

Ray Hunter does a tour in the USA in 1972, often tag teaming with his old pal, Al Hayes. Was Paul Lincoln with them, in a non-wrestling capacity (or wrestling under another name?), did they run into Peter Maivia, and while reminiscing about old times, knock up a plan for Peter to come back to the UK, for a short visit, and unmask Doctor Death, while enjoying a few days back in the UK?

Rocco v Crusher Mason in a standard chain match was worth watching

From memory (according to Paul Lincoln's family I think), the unmasking was in Colchester.

I am curious about the Dr Death - Peter Maivia matchup.

In 1972 Maivia was in the USA (he left the UK late 1967). And we've thought Dr Death was in Australia at this time.

Which gives a window of late 1965 through 1967 for this bout to have happened. I just haven't come across it yet.

I always enjoy your annual post, Callsignmag. This one contains great memories.

But do you think that Hunter bout could have been five years earlier in the mid-sixties? It doesn't otherwise fit in with my understanding of the timelines.

I think that perhaps we are forgetting something here. Professional wrestling is not a sport in the true sense because the best man won't always win - it is an entertainment and if every bout was straightforward wrestling, then it would die. Dog collar matches were always ridiculous but the idea was obviously to attract punters and put bums on seats.

I saw my first bout in 1961 at the Poplar Baths, it was between Dr Death and Dr Blood with a stipulation that the loser would unmask. It was the fact that they both wore masks and one would have to unmask that drew me to the baths because I had never heard of either. It wasn't as though I knew anything about wrestling back then and had it been a normal four-bout bill I doubt I would even have bothered reading beyond the Poplar Baths name! But the gimmick aspect worked on me and wrestling gained a fan. When I heard fans saying that Paul Lincoln was under the mask, I was stunned and couldn't work out how they knew but it didn't matter because I was hooked! When Dr Blood unmasked, I didn't have a clue who he was anyway (it turned out to be Geoff Portz on that day, but my knowledge of pro-wrestling was very limited and I assumed that the best man had won)! I was later told that the real Dr Blood wasn't there and that Portz had taken his place. I was staggered how people knew these things but it made me want to see more.

Years later I ended up regularly washing the sports car of Judo Al Hayes in return for a seat at the Hackney Empire or Leyton Baths in London. Who knew that not long after he would be elevated to a Lord in the USA! Such is the power of gimmicks in wrestling!

Changing tack very slightly, one bout that always stands out in my mind was in the early 1970s at the Granada Edmonton where Rebel Ray Hunter was taking on Dr Death and Ray was very badly cut - not sure if it was genuine or his hand slipped - but he looked very groggy as he was helped out. Even DD looked concerned in that he didn't try to do any more damage. Then following the bout, someone came out and over the speaker system asked if there was a doctor in the house. As the person asking was a member of the backroom staff and known to no one, the message sounded genuine and made me wonder what type of medical care was available back then. After all, regardless of the result, we all know that accidents can and do happen. I'm sure that nowadays there is some sort of medical facility on site, but apparently it wasn't back then.

And finally a question: Is it true that Paul Lincoln was unmasked in a bout with Peter Maivia back in the 1970s?

How would you get a belt big enough? and anyway even if you did he'd probably eat it. His idea of keeping fit was to drink cream as it 'lined the stomach' what a Plonka.

This thread is both and illuminating and the most depressing I've read. I appreciate the comments and the knowledge and depression they have brought. Thank God I got out in the mid 1970s. I was pretty depressed by then, but had never imagined the suicidal tendencies these chain or street clothes matches would induce. We celebrate Dempsey, Capelli, McManus, Robinson, Cornelius and all the other greats. What brings Bartelli to this? Maybe bkendo1 could enlighten us was why Geoff was so keen to be on bills after decades of stardom? Max thought this was the future. Was he ignorant or delusional? I'm going to lie down.

Either the poster writing is slightly off or something was lost in translation when borrowing from the Americans here. In the US, it wasn't a case of whoever loses (eg by pinfall) is dragged around the ring, presumably as as a punishment.

Instead it was whoever drags their opponent around the ring and touches all four corners in succession is the winner. (Or, whoever is dragged around the ring is the loser.) It's basically another variation on a cage match or lumberjack match that you'd normally set up by the villain losing a match by running away and then doing the chain match as a rematch with the selling point that they couldn't escape this time. Not sure what they did here, but in the US they nearly always had the same finish where the villain is dragging his opponent round the ring and touches three corners but is unaware the good guy is also touching the corners behind his back. As the villain goes for the fourth corner, the good guy leapfrogs him to take the win.

I can only reiterate what a few have already said here, i personaly wasn't a fan of gimmick matches. From interviews i've read/heard & seen both Mark Rocco and Marty Jones hold Max Crabtree in high esteem as a promoter, so probably new what they were getting into with such a contest.

To me, the majority of these novelty bouts were both demeening and cringe inducing. But the promoters were willing to try these antics to draw the punters into the halls, bums on seats is cash in the register. Thanks heavens we never got to the stage of brass knuckle and barbed wire contests where the aim is to purley draw blood. Not meaning to sound like Albert Steptoe having seen close up forehead pictures of some of the "American Bleeders" such as Dusty Rhodes, you would believe wrestling was all about facial disfigurement.

Have seen Rocco vDanny Collins in a chain match, also Danny v Bearcat Wright in one. I'm sure I also saw a photo of Rocco v Finlay using a chain - would love to have seen that one!

April 23, 1977, Hanley: Great Bula bt Bartelli (chain)

October 29, 1977, Hanley: Bartelli bt P. Kaye (chain)

Hope they washed it in between times.

I always thought Tally Ho Kaye was a terrific worker - a great wrestler who was tough, had a great gimmick that wound people up as soon as they heard his horn blowing. As we have all said on here before, the unsung heroes were the Tally Hos, Sid Cooper and Black Jacks of the wrestling world - villains who seldom 'won' but always put on a great show with a blue eye. Watch some of Tally Hos solo bouts and you will se an unorthodox strength hold submission based wrestler. Could be very clever I thought. I can't see why eye brows are being raised at such a bout, I can imagine in a straight bout the two would have had a good match up with plenty of needle to get a feud going. I can recall seeing the Count loads of times at the end of his career. Often he would be against men of the calibre of Rocco. It still got the heat and we all felt sorry for the Count - poor ol' boy getting hammered by Rocco, but there must have been a lot of mutual respect and trust going on for these matches to still keep occurring. I personally thought he went on a bit too long and seeing him in a bloody heap in the corner after a Rocco bout, sort of affirmed that, but who were we to say ? It was his profession and he must have still enjoyed it !

As for chain matches it happened a bit prior to me being regular at Norwich - Yasa Fuji, Bill Bromley, Johnny Kincaid and Pat Barrett all had a go. It came to an end when Bobby Barnes and Mike Flash Jordan got into a feud. It aroused the heckles of the local council, Local TV news did a feature and showed some of the bout including Jordan covered in blood and thereafter chain matches were banned from Norwich. I wonder if anyone else recalls the TV footage and if anyone has a copy of it ??

I don't think I liked any of the gimmicks. If any at all it would have been fight to a finish , but even these got twisted. (loser to unmask was an exception)

I think circa 1970 , what wrestling needed was one fall/sub/ko only matches to stop the predictability of 2-1 that was very evident.

Ladders , Lumberjacks ,Chains.......All tosh in my opinion

Graham, I always love your anecdotes but this time I have to pick you up on your sacrilege:

" the rather stale formula; particularly as presented by many Dale Martin shows."

A bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Specifically to maintrain a sense of legitimacy, and also to keep the tv contract going, DMs played it for real all the way.

It was easy to let the cat out of the bag - but did this contribute to the long term success of pro wrestling? Do you want to keep watching magicians when you know how the tricks are done?

Novelty matches ... and what happened when the novelty wore off?

This type of match was typical of the time Max read too many American magazines and did low budget versions.At this time Geoff was so keen to be on bills he would agree to, I usually agree with Graham's comments but I found this far from.a breath of fresh air.It coincided with the man who discovered the Everley Brothers so he claimed giving lower bill, workers American names, and inventing comedy names like Reggie Ramsden any last vestment of legitimacy was going.Then overweight guys who ten years earlier wouldn't pass the Cadmans test populated the halls for very poor pay.

Christ on a bike! Wrestler ripping each others clothes off?

Yeah, Max was a real pioneer ...

When Max Crabtree first took over I thought he provided a breath of fresh air. Along with dog chain matches, ladder matches, winner to strip his opponent down to his underwear and crooked referees, it provided a change from the rather stale formula; particularly as presented by many Dale Martin shows. Kaye was a Crabtree mainstay of course and took part in many of the matches which saw both contestants fully clothed then trying to tear the clothes off each other until, in Kaye's case, he lost revealing the fact that he was wearing comical underwear. Catweazle was often his opponent in these matches. When Crabtree first took over he offered quite a bit of work to Joe Critchley who also took part in one of these matches as a comedy villain and, I believe, actually showed his bottom. He had no objection at all to doing these matches but stopped because he preferred working for Dixon who was using him as referee, M.C., male wrestler and female wrestler. The most usual crooked referee at the time was Jack Land refereeing as Karl Kramer; a situation which often eventually led to bad referee (Kramer) wrestling good referee (Bryan Crabtree). All this was good fun and, as I've typed, a breath of fresh air but only as a novelty in a show which was still dominated by good wrestling. Crabtree's problem eventually was that the show was full of this novelty nonsense to the exclusion of good wrestling.

Incidentally, I was approached at the time by John Wilkie who then owned a pub in Congleton and John wanted me to book him and Keith Myatt who did a dog collar chain match but theirs involved cutting each other with the chains, blood flowing etc. This was a side of the game I didn't wish to get into (although I have reminisced before about the occasional blading which took place on my promotions) so i declined. This was a world away from Crabtree's comedy matches involving humorous underwear.

Summer of 1980 Sophia Gardens Pavillion, Cardiff. Mark Rocco .v. Marty Jones main event a "Dog Chain Contest." Probably another gimmick drawn from the pages of an American Wrestling magazine around that era to test if there was money to be made. I don't think such a contest appeared again at the Pavillion. Both Jones & Rocco really didn't need gimmicks.

Fascinating 1977 revelation, Ost. So now we can put 2+2 and considering it was Bartelli ... he probably OWNED the chains and therefore demanded his price for the matches. Who knows, maybe he had special chains made including magicians' trick ring features. Maybe he couldn't hold onto a title belt any more but knew the chains would guarantee him top billing.

1977! With Bartelli! I can't see any excuse for this. Bartelli chose to get involved. He was a big name even though well past his prime. After so many years of service why get involved in this other than Anglo's suggestion they did it for the money. But I doubt they got an extra tenner.

Interesting topic.

Earliest chain match in the UK I can see so far is in 1977, and Bartelli is in it! In the US, Ivan Koloff was in a lot, known as Russian Chain matches.

....Apart from the obvious that Peter Kaye was tiny in comparison with Ct Bartelli. Just in case we wanted a seriously credible Dog Collar match!

The guys were no dount happy to do it for an extra tenner.

The date on this is interesting, as it predates by a couple of weeks a match notorious in US wrestling history: the “Dog Collar” match between Roddy Piper and Greg Valentine (for the avoidance of doubt, the Seattle one!).

Absolutely crazy! The Count must have wanted to do it. Maybe there were some side bets on just how much they could get away with. No doubt this was after 1978?

What a stupid idea. A great wrestler like The Count should have told them to do one.