DID BARTELLI FIGHT MASKLESS PRE 1966?

He lives in Manchester and isn't mobile these days. There were hopes he would make it to the Reunion a few years back but it didn't happen. He is one wrestler I would have liked to have met. Circumstances are such that I think a meeting would be impossible.

Well I wasn't actually serious. But I'm sure "my mate" would have looked after him. By the way The Monster is still with us, living in Manchester, but not as mobile as he was.

Well, Peter Thornley would have been about 20.

Naaaah. In any case - who was the wrestler?

Well done Ost. Bartelli did have a reputation for reliability so he would most likely appear where advertised. Some time back a wrestler told us of Jack Taylor's love of dreaming up names. I think it was Al Tarzo who said that Roy LaRue was named after some electrical appliance or something like that. Taylor would know of Jeff Conda I think the most likely thing is that he sat pondering and thought Jeff Conda had a nice ring to it. Bob's your uncle. Jess Conda it is.

Brilliant stuff, The Ost, and so quick! Cheers.

I guess all we need now are sure signs that he actually wrestled Hayes and Taylor in Blackpool and Warrington. I bet he did because The Count was never a no-show type, was he?

But there's something in this Jess Conda mallarkey, there has to be. Using the name 10 years after Jeff Conda had been active - had Jeff left such a big impression that he was worth copying, Mick McManners style? And to wrestle those big name masked men, Jess must have known his way around the ring.

Main Mask's initial hypothesis still convinces somehow.

I also have Bartelli's book and the name Jeff Conda is mentioned by his wife.

Reason for me poking my nose in _"Did Bartelli have a love/ hate relationship with a mask?"

Has anyone any idea if Bartelli got paid more with the mask on than when fighting unmasked?

So if Bartelli was very active at this time, it stands to reason that he would have been on a JP bill on those Melton Mondays. If he can be located active elsewhere on the same nights, that will prove he wasn't Jess Conda.

Mutating Jeff to Jess could even have been a mishearing down the telephone line.

Monday 16 January was 1961 also. I think this was a short-lived handle.

My 2¢ is that it could have been Geoff's son who wanted to be in the business but wasn't going to make it. Obviously that is quite a dramatic theory. Most likely it was just a guy who was given the name as an inside joke by a promoter or matchmaker with a sense of humour.

Bartelli was working all around this area at the time.

Then why not call himself Jeff Conda?

John's "returning the favour" is irresistible.

Hack's logic, too. But in all those JP years there must have been tiffs. And temptations.

And Main Mask that Geoff liked taking the mick out of the whole business, pushing limits to see what he could get away with.

We are nearly there.

An interesting and splendid contribution from John M. Unsubstantiated, of course, but I'm the first to admit that rarely matters with wrestling - so little can be substantiated until we've got all the pieces of the jig saw together. So I'm not dismissing what you say John, but do see one problem. If Bartelli beat a wrestler that would be on a Joint bill. For Bartelli to unmask and lose to the same man would mean both of them moonlighting to the independents and risking their livelihood with Joint.

Why on earth would Arthur Wright give his blessing to one of his assets moonlighting on small town opposition shows? He was a founder of Joint Promotions. It would have gone against everything they believed in. As for a self-inflicted death blow, no chance. Joint lost Marino, Hayes, Stedman, Kidd, D'Orazio, Capelli , Portz, Hunter around this time. Later they lost Pallo, Kellet, Mitchell, Allan. No one was indispensible.

I don't recall it in the book either. But then the style of the book and the way it portrays Bartelli I wouldn't expect it to mention this aspect of his career even if it was true.

As I said I don't think it was. Joint men working for the opposition in those days were immediately dispensable. Even if his special relationship with Arthur Wright could overcome this why would he betray Arthur. That would be the end of the relationship on a professional level surely and Bartelli would be out of Joint.

If he was moonlighting he wouldn't want to be discovered so would not use the name Conda. Any name but Conda. If for some unfathomable reason he did want to be found out he would have been Jeff Conda.

And why would he work for Taylor? If Taylor paid good money he would want the name Bartelli on the poster. The name Conda had little value, so Taylor would pay less. Why would Bartelli want to work as a nobody?

I have a copy of Bartelli's book 'They Called Him The Count'. The book says that Geoff Condliffe debuted as a wrestler in June 1939, wrestling as the unmasked Jeff Conda. He joined the army in 1942 and he was stationed in Malaysia in 1946-47 where he wrestled, again under the name Jeff Conda. He returned to the UK in 1947 and he was asked to wrestle as the masked wrestler Count Bartelli. His book says that he stayed wrestling as Count Bartelli until his retirement in 1986.

However, I have read somewhere once a rumour that he would sometimes wrestle and beat a wrestler as the masked Count Bartelli in the North-West but would then return the favour by wrestling the same wrestler elsewhere as the unmasked Jeff Conda and would lose to him.

Fantastic Main Mask , for once I am on the fence. I can't decide on Conda but almost certainly he did not exist in Canada.

Pretty sure it ain't in the book as well.

Would there be any mention of anything like this in the book "They called him The Count"?, I don't own a copy, so I don't know.

Maybe Hack is right. Maybe Jack Taylor deliberately did this as he knew Arthur Wright would spot it. Maybe he wanted mischievously to create discord between Wright and Bartelli?

I'd be more inclined to believe it. Especially given Main Mask's starting point that Geoff was fascinated by masked wrestlers. Conda would be a very odd name to dream up.

Of course we could disprove the theory: we would simply need to find detail of who Jess Conda was.

The fact that there is, I imagine, not a single other mention of him does make the theory all the more convincing.

Nice to see we already have another newbie for our recent Judo listing: Judo Jim Martin.

And an all-Canadian affair, too, with Conda vs Cassidy!

Here you are boys and girls. This is what you have been waiting for from Main Mask. My own thoughts beneath the "evidence."

First from 1959, promoter Jack Taylor.

Second, from 1960, again Jack Taylor promoting.

Finally, 1961, again Jack Taylor promoting.

An interesting collection Main Mask.

I'm not convinced. I think it's very unlikely this was Geoff Condliffe. At this time he was working for Wryton Promotions, in debt to Arthur Wright for the purchase of his garage. Why would he go against his benefactor, friend and the strict rules of Joint Promotions at that time? If he was to do a bit of moonlighting I think this would be the last name he would chose. He would have used a name that wouldn't arouse suspicion.

Jack Taylor would certainly know of Bartelli and his Jeff Conda time. Taylor was very imaginative with wrestlers names. This one didn't require much imagination but may have fooled a few older fans (but then again why say he was Canadian?). Nope, sorry Main Mask, this is just a bit more of opposition promoters codology.