Not mentioned so far is that the common factor in all these Dr Death appearances are the appearance of George Kidd and Doctor Death. It was George Kidd that suggested to Paul Lincoln he should wear a mask and call himself Dr Death.
And Don't Forget ANGLO That BOB KIRKWOOD Told Me That Pretty Soon
after he got his £1,000,000+ from The 'Merger' with JOINTS- He Resolved
To 'Disappear' back to AUSTRALIA with his Loot leaving RAY HUNTER at
the Helm of PAUL LINCOLN Promotions!
I don't think this was case.
Directors of Paul Lincoln Promotions were the Abbeys, Al Hayes, Ray Hunter, and Paul Lincoln. If Paul Lincoln really had pocketed £1,000.000 ( and I can't see any evidence of this) he certainly wasn't in charge - Dale Martin Promotions were.
Given that he remained masked right up to the 1.1.66 merger, and for some months after that, I would have thought there were endless possibilities to keep the gimmick alive. TV exposure, feuds with wrestlers of any weight, really. He was entering a vast new pool of potential opponents. And hundreds of new venues.
Bartelli had been masked for approx 20 years, so the precedent of long-term masked men was there.
I don't think the gimmick was limited but I do think that "Paul" Lincoln had had enough, for whatever reason. I think his Dr Death was a cornerstone in building up his promotion. I think his loss of Ricky Starr really rocked him and made him give up. And he really did have other business interests and needed to make himself scarce in the late sixties for "other reasons".
He probably also wouldn't have enjoyed no longer being the boss and having McManus determining his opponents!
He remains enigmatic because of his high profile in spite of no tv exposure.
Yes , it looks like Lincoln played the odd Doctor Death bout here and there for other promoters , so maybe not even his own idea. But whatever, he built up a head of steam with him later on his own shows I think by doing series's of bouts with rivals to gain the heat. Probably the White Angel bouts were the peak of it all with the pinacle of the unmasking of the Angel. It makes me wonder , at that point , was there anywhere else to go with the idea. Maybe it stopped at the right time. Too long and it might have spoilt the legend.
Yes I don't think the idea took off straight away , but rather that he plugged away at it. Maybe Al hayes was the Catalyst for the later excitement , but 1958/59 bills for Dr Death are Scarce. In fact mine for the summer of 59 stands out because he did wrestle later that year as Paul Lincoln.
I don't know whether these bits and bobs can help your jigsaw?
23rd January 1958:
And then in March that year he was still wrestling as Paul Lincoln (not even his real name!) Would he have gone back to Paul Lincoln after launching Dr Death? I wouldn't have thought so:
There's a Ron Harrison on the bill - he may be able to help!
At the time I put this thread out early last year , I don't think we really established the earliest Lincoln played Dr Death. We also struggled to show he did it pre 1960 except maybe some Plunkett Index finds. It kind of left the thread getting spread and no real answer. It was clear that at first and even for a few years Dr Death was no big deal , then the momentum struck. Just though I would ask again about earliest bills as I have now found a 1959 one.
Thank you Ian; the bill was actually published higher up at the beginning of the thread although I don't know how I missed it at the time that it was posted (except that there was a lot going on at home at that time including me being two weeks away from retiring!)
Thank you Ron for posting my debut bill; they did more than sneak the prices up, 2/- was a lot of money back in those days. Newcastle did move up to those prices in the autumn of the following year but stated that along with the rise in prices we could expect to see bigger names appearing on ensuing bills.
Dr Death was a main eventer on Lincoln shows. Morrell puts his imposter on a bill with a genuinely big international star, his own established masked man, and a former British heavyweight champion popular in Newcastle. Dr Death is on with a middleweight, a good one admittedly, but no Ski Hi Lee, Docker Don Stedman or Crusher Verdu. Looks to me like Morrell is using his imposter to downplay the significance of Dr Death. Looks like the Doctor opened the show, being allowed a 2-1 win.
Hi Dave,ithink i can help you your programme regarding DR>DEATH bill on the date of your visit to Newcastle on Sat. 23rd. Nov. 1963 The programme was as followws on WED,20th. NOV 1963
TWO RIVERS V BILL RAWLINGS, THE PROOFESSOR V ALF CADMAN,DR> DEATH V CHIC PURVEY, LEON ARRAS V ERNIE BALDWIN. Hope this helps.
Thanks Dave I'd forgotten about our early 1960s finds. But they were all on Morrell shows in the north far away from the original Doctor. I would be surprised to find a 1960s impostor Doctor on Dale Martin's in the 1960s.
The programme from St James’ Hall actually advertises the only appearance of Doctor Death ever at that venue; with the match being on a Wednesday night it wouldn’t show up on Ray’s list of results there. I am further intrigued that I cannot remember that particular line up as my first ever visit to St James’ was on the following Saturday 23rd November 1963 (the day after JFK’s assassination) yet when I went to the ticket office on the Monday lunchtime I’m sure that I would have studied that particular poster in detail; even if it was nearly 60 years ago!
Another rarity on that bill was two masked men appearing on the same night. Granted that the main bout would have been Billy Two Rivers v Bill Rawlings and it would have been interesting to see the admission charges for that night as midweek matches (possibly twice per year and usually featuring BTR) were slightly more expensive.
Not mentioned so far is that the common factor in all these Dr Death appearances are the appearance of George Kidd and Doctor Death. It was George Kidd that suggested to Paul Lincoln he should wear a mask and call himself Dr Death.
adrianpollard.shangri-la
And Don't Forget ANGLO That BOB KIRKWOOD Told Me That Pretty Soon
after he got his £1,000,000+ from The 'Merger' with JOINTS- He Resolved
To 'Disappear' back to AUSTRALIA with his Loot leaving RAY HUNTER at
the Helm of PAUL LINCOLN Promotions!
I don't think this was case.
Directors of Paul Lincoln Promotions were the Abbeys, Al Hayes, Ray Hunter, and Paul Lincoln. If Paul Lincoln really had pocketed £1,000.000 ( and I can't see any evidence of this) he certainly wasn't in charge - Dale Martin Promotions were.
Given that he remained masked right up to the 1.1.66 merger, and for some months after that, I would have thought there were endless possibilities to keep the gimmick alive. TV exposure, feuds with wrestlers of any weight, really. He was entering a vast new pool of potential opponents. And hundreds of new venues.
Bartelli had been masked for approx 20 years, so the precedent of long-term masked men was there.
I don't think the gimmick was limited but I do think that "Paul" Lincoln had had enough, for whatever reason. I think his Dr Death was a cornerstone in building up his promotion. I think his loss of Ricky Starr really rocked him and made him give up. And he really did have other business interests and needed to make himself scarce in the late sixties for "other reasons".
He probably also wouldn't have enjoyed no longer being the boss and having McManus determining his opponents!
He remains enigmatic because of his high profile in spite of no tv exposure.
Yes , it looks like Lincoln played the odd Doctor Death bout here and there for other promoters , so maybe not even his own idea. But whatever, he built up a head of steam with him later on his own shows I think by doing series's of bouts with rivals to gain the heat. Probably the White Angel bouts were the peak of it all with the pinacle of the unmasking of the Angel. It makes me wonder , at that point , was there anywhere else to go with the idea. Maybe it stopped at the right time. Too long and it might have spoilt the legend.
Interesting how this all played out well away from London.
I have also found Dr death in Hull in July and August 1959 although don't have the July bill.
We also found this 1959 Dr Death when we last discussed this, it's September 1959, so Ron's July 1959 outing remains the earliest
Yes I don't think the idea took off straight away , but rather that he plugged away at it. Maybe Al hayes was the Catalyst for the later excitement , but 1958/59 bills for Dr Death are Scarce. In fact mine for the summer of 59 stands out because he did wrestle later that year as Paul Lincoln.
Hi Ron
I don't know whether these bits and bobs can help your jigsaw?
23rd January 1958:
And then in March that year he was still wrestling as Paul Lincoln (not even his real name!) Would he have gone back to Paul Lincoln after launching Dr Death? I wouldn't have thought so:
There's a Ron Harrison on the bill - he may be able to help!
At the time I put this thread out early last year , I don't think we really established the earliest Lincoln played Dr Death. We also struggled to show he did it pre 1960 except maybe some Plunkett Index finds. It kind of left the thread getting spread and no real answer. It was clear that at first and even for a few years Dr Death was no big deal , then the momentum struck. Just though I would ask again about earliest bills as I have now found a 1959 one.
Yes Main mask we uncovered lots of early 1960s Joint imposters, but none from Dale Martin. Have you any pre 1966 Dale Martin Doctor Deaths?
Thank you Ian; the bill was actually published higher up at the beginning of the thread although I don't know how I missed it at the time that it was posted (except that there was a lot going on at home at that time including me being two weeks away from retiring!)
Thank you Ron for posting my debut bill; they did more than sneak the prices up, 2/- was a lot of money back in those days. Newcastle did move up to those prices in the autumn of the following year but stated that along with the rise in prices we could expect to see bigger names appearing on ensuing bills.
Hack did some digging for me and we now have January 1960 billings/results:
JANUARY 1960
6th; BEXHILL; Dr Death v K.Joyce;
7th; LEYTON; Kidd/Capelli/Peters/Dr Death/Von Kramer/Craddock
8th; CALEDONIAN ROAD, LONDON ; Dr Death bt Bajko; Dr Death bt Laurent Boranyi;
And after a meandering debate we are still not sure of Dr Deaths first Appearance and earliest Poster anyone has of him. Truly a man of mystery.
Dr Death was a main eventer on Lincoln shows. Morrell puts his imposter on a bill with a genuinely big international star, his own established masked man, and a former British heavyweight champion popular in Newcastle. Dr Death is on with a middleweight, a good one admittedly, but no Ski Hi Lee, Docker Don Stedman or Crusher Verdu. Looks to me like Morrell is using his imposter to downplay the significance of Dr Death. Looks like the Doctor opened the show, being allowed a 2-1 win.
Dave you asked about prices...try these... They did sneak the prices up.
Hi Dave,ithink i can help you your programme regarding DR>DEATH bill on the date of your visit to Newcastle on Sat. 23rd. Nov. 1963 The programme was as followws on WED,20th. NOV 1963
TWO RIVERS V BILL RAWLINGS, THE PROOFESSOR V ALF CADMAN,DR> DEATH V CHIC PURVEY, LEON ARRAS V ERNIE BALDWIN. Hope this helps.
Kind regards. Ian P.
Thanks Dave I'd forgotten about our early 1960s finds. But they were all on Morrell shows in the north far away from the original Doctor. I would be surprised to find a 1960s impostor Doctor on Dale Martin's in the 1960s.
The programme from St James’ Hall actually advertises the only appearance of Doctor Death ever at that venue; with the match being on a Wednesday night it wouldn’t show up on Ray’s list of results there. I am further intrigued that I cannot remember that particular line up as my first ever visit to St James’ was on the following Saturday 23rd November 1963 (the day after JFK’s assassination) yet when I went to the ticket office on the Monday lunchtime I’m sure that I would have studied that particular poster in detail; even if it was nearly 60 years ago!
Another rarity on that bill was two masked men appearing on the same night. Granted that the main bout would have been Billy Two Rivers v Bill Rawlings and it would have been interesting to see the admission charges for that night as midweek matches (possibly twice per year and usually featuring BTR) were slightly more expensive.
After 1975 certainly Main Mask, but not in the 1960s when Dale Martin were still running the show.