George Kidd

The wizardry of Kidd is there to be witnessed and he must have spent a lot of time developing it. But as with everyone else it took the co-operation of his opponents for it to work.

Matey Dave asks

George Kidd

was it all a fix with steve logan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWr-i1E8qmw

And look where you book: Kidd and Wallace.

Gromit Kidd?

Just how much of Kidd rolling up into a ball could the fans take at the Caird Hall? He seems to have been on there every week.

Yes from here on Kidd was no doubt writing his own scripts , typical wrestling stuff that we have seen again and again.

For example

So , can you guess , of course Kidd v Colbeck are both champs , so it's a draw and Kidd does not get the Welter Title.

So they have a grudge match for £50 two weeks later and Colbeck loses his temper for Kidd to win the bout , but conveniently it's not a title match. Just to finish the Kayfabe , Kidd's people write to the British Wrestling Association asking for another title match.

All good stuff and it keeps the fans coming back.

These young men, Kidd, McManus, realised the importance of the non-internet age. By that I mean that they realised the limitations of communications. They pushed information, misinformation, billing and performance to the absolute edge. Boldly. Smiling. Maybe cynically. But providing ample entertainment to keep the punters coming back.

Good luck to Kidd if he was clever enough to get away with it all. As you say in 2020, "You never realised..." It's taken 70 years for him to be rumbled. Genius.

In a way, all his claims are true.

Depends what truth is .... in wrestling nothing is clear cut.

I never released how preposterous some of the information about Kidd is. His wikipedia page says he traveled to Mexico and unified the NWA World Lightweight title with the Mountevans title. Then it says he added Rene Ben Chemoul's "FFCP" World lightweight title to become the undisputed World Lightweight champion. Firstly, the NWA World Lightweight title wasn't created until November of 1952 and was a US title at the time. It became dormant and was resurrected by EMLL in 1958.

Secondly, there was no such thing as a "FFCP" title. The French promotions didn't have their own titles. If Kidd did beat Ben Chemoul for another World Lightweight title it would have been the Spanish version not this FFCP title.

None of this is a surprise given how wrestling works. Kidd liked to throw out the idea that he beat all comers and became the undisputed World Champion. Here is talking about it in 1977:

http://wrestlingfurnace.site/galleries/k/gkidd/gkidd21.jpg

For sure, but for them to be invited to a wedding is quite a thing, isn't it Bernard? I mean, had it been Chic Purvey or the like, well, you'd understand.

It's great to uncover these behind the scenes workings.

Les is in his last interview saying "Nobody in wrestling likes me" - even that seems to have been a porky. Unless he got very gnarled in the later years?

Hi Anglo. In the earlier days , both Norman Walsh and Les Kellett were often billed from various places in Scotland.

Perhaps they both worked up there and were adopted by the Scots, as they were both good wrestlers.

We shouldn't imagine that the favours only started in 1949. Kidd had been very active for four years, Mick for at least a few. Their paths would have crossed before and a friendship seems to have been built up.

The forms of friendship didn't need to be based on tit-for-tat favours, I believe. Both were promoters at a hidden level. It was enough to be like-minded with a vision for disciplined and structured pro wrestling. And let's not forget that we were in 1949, with heavyweights dominating top-of-the-bill bouts. These two tiddlers worked together to ensure the lighter weights would become big names nationwide, also on tv. Kidd worked a great deal in the south; Mick had all the Scots work he wanted (probably wasn't a great deal...) They mutually got themselves to the top of the bills and mutually ensured they stayed there.

In terms of these secrets, I am glad this tidbit is providing such interest.

There was another we sat on for quite a while. Hack and I nearly fell of our seats the day Mick's real name was revealed to us in strictest confidence. Now it's all over the internet and in his various obituaries, but the source was ours initially, a great confidence shared and we will NOT say who told us. We wove it for the first time into one of our articles, The McManus-Pallo feud, from memory. Hack did a great pre-Ron job in tracking down the precise details of the deed-poll.

My point being that wrestling is all about secrecy, just like the Magic Circle as I have said many times. Not just the secrecy about how bouts were, ahem, structured, but also about all these peripheral details. And we were fed so many red herrings - "Ian Campbell was a vet" - very effectively to keep us off the real scents.

There are other gems out there. Our mission is to go boldly .....

I too was fascinated by Kidd's wedding invitees, Bernard is of course delighted about Norman Walsh, but seeing Les "Nobody in wrestling likes me" Kellett also set me thinking .

Thanks Ron. I asked because I once saw a booklet produced by a fan in Scotland, which said that Norman Walsh was once in the Clyde river police.

I showed the article to Flo Walsh and she did not deny it.

I know that he was in the Tees river police later.

This may account for many Scottish bills showing him to be from places in Scotland.

Apologies to all for sidetracking this very interesting piece.

I can only think that in 1949 Mick had a long way to go. Dundee needed someone who had never been seen before with Black Hair so had to ask down South. This would have done Mick a lot of good and might even have been a lucrative trip.

They had plenty of bouts after this and Mick seems to have been thrown a few draws among defeats. Not so sure he won any. One later day write up about Kidd claims he only ever lost six bouts. Doubt if this is right.

It's amazing that every answer leads to another question. This has been a staggering revelation unless Bkendo1 can reveal otherwise.

It seems we have only scratched the surface of wrestling's secrecy.

So, if we are correct here (and JJ Pallo was telling a true story), then a young Mick McManus did a favour to George Kidd, in playing the part of Rudi Quarez and going down to a defeat, for George to claim a World LIghtweight title.

Was the favour returned?, did George let Mick win an important contest?

Mick McManus ends being a household name, and arguabley the most famous name in Wrestling, during the TV years. He probably doesn't need any favours from George Kidd, but I just wondered if Kidd ever felt it was the right thing to do.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Yes Bernard , 8th June 1949.

Hi Ron, please can you tell me the date of George Kidd's wedding?

Yes, a very small audience. The BBC only transmitted to London at this time, and tv sets could probably be measured in hundreds. The first transmitter outside London was Sutton Coldfield in December, 1949.

Worth noting McManus had been in a match on BBC in 1947. However, from what I can tell TV broadcasting didn't start in Scotland until 1952. (And of course, the viewing figures in England in 1947 would have been tiny, so it wouldn't have been a big risk of anyone recognising him off the back of that appearance.)

The reason we are all surprised by this revelation is only because we now have the knowledge of what became of Mick. In 1949 it wouldn't have been such a big deal as he was an youngster just starting out. Without television he would only be recognisable in the few halls in which he appeared. So looking for someone to play the role Relwyskow just had to find an unknown, reliable young lad with a bit of ambition who could look the part. He was hardly going to pay for an unknown Mexican to come over for the one job was he? Mick was too young for any bad relationships to have built up with Relwyskow. Jack Dale was often working for Relwyskow in the late 1940s and was well known in Dundee. He could well have suggested this youngster who was game for a laugh. A week or so to grow a moustache was all that was needed. A Brit masquerading as an overseas visitor was nothing new in wrestling. Even in the age of television we had the likes of Jack Taylor, Judd Harris and Steve Wright changing nationalities and returning to halls they were known.

It's hard to imagine the early years of McManus, Pallo and Logan and accept that they were just low to mid card wrestlers for a long time.

These were the days of Jack Pye , Assirati , Ghoul , Anaconda.

Talking of friends of George Kidd , there were three at his wedding.

Norman Walsh . Les Kellett. Chick Purvey.

Hi Ron. I don't remember hearing about Mick McManus whilst I was going to St. James Hall. I think that I saw him on bills in the Evening Standard after I moved to the London area.

He was certainly well represented on the youtube matches, but that was later.

Been having a look tonight at Kidd / McManus matches and have not been able to find them meeting before the Mexican affair. From then on they seem to meet regularly , pretty sure I have them three times in 1950. Twice at Bristol (Dale Martin) and also Lincoln (Globe Promotions).

As another yardstick , I very much doubt that Mick had ever graced the Kings Hall in the first ten years of his career.

I do rate this one as another historic Forum Topic though. Marvellous.