Gullibility Confessions

I also thought Ian "Bully Boy Muir" was a , Scot from East Kilbride, but he spoke with a pretty heavy London accent, Kent Walton telling us he'd never seen certain "face" wrestlers ever getting a public warning, when I have seen them get their fair share.

Another guilibility was the ref counting a fall and not noticing a wrestlers feet on the ropes and the crowd going wild.In these twenty first century days we have fans taking photos with their phones and showing the ref!

Regarding Anglo's request of 'what did we think we knew, when we wet between the ears'. Mine is a different take on the question, as I followed the British game from around '58 to early '64 then emigrated to Australia. In those six years noted, I believed everything uncle Kent said. Even when Kevin Connelly, or it may have been Joe Critchley, took a bump some several seconds after his opponent had Irish-whipped him, Kent causally remarked 'A delayed reaction there from Critchley', I sucked it up, even though I did recall that spot to friends at school the following Monday and I had the feeling as I was relating the incident, I was actually trying to qualify the late bump in my mind.

I still have the English class schoolbook, in which I pompously wrote about, the misguided people who said that wrestling was fixed and insisted that if that were the case, then there were a lot of unscrupulous young men plying their trade. Wrestling was on the up and up! And then I went to Australia where, some months later, Jim Barnet and Johnny Doyle, commenced with their World Championship Wrestling. This was where you could watch, as a wrestler would attack his opponent before the bell and even before the other had removed his jacket and the referee would not only not disqualify the assailant, but would call for the bell to be rung, to start the contest! Often the guy with his jacket still on, would turn on his foe and dispatch him within a minute! That's how good he was! Then there was the time we were told that the newly arriving Billy Robinson had actually been born in Bondi Beach, not just Bondi, but Bondi Beach! And Bill went along with it! A mid-carder wrestler named Guy Mitchell was talked about as 'coming soon to Australia' and then the 'Destroyer' arrived and I had read about and seen pictures of the guy who was the Destroyer and this guy wasn't Dick Beyer and all mention of Guy Mitchell ceased, so my guess was it was Guy under the hood and of course decades later, with the advent of the Internet I found out I was right.

If someone had bled in a match and there was a replay, I watched for the bleeder to disappear under the ring, appearing with 'colour' once he reappeared, I noticed that the matches always ended by about 10.30pm, figuring the promoters didn't want to lose any audience members who had to catch a bus or train (just about everyone would have to do one or the other, or both). Still a teenager, I clung on to the thought that some of those cracking matches I had witnessed, involving the likes of Killer Kowalski, Mark Lewin, Ray Stevens, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, DeNucci, von Erich, Cowboy Bob etc. must be on the up and up and I duly defended the game to those who sneered at my devotion, while I knew they were right. Probably.

Back in England in the early 70s I was reunited with my wrestling first love, perhaps not viewing it with the same enthusiasm as my favourites from the 60s started to retire, or carried on with pot bellies and scrawny arms and only a few decent newcomers to be seen on the box and the overseas stars no longer allowed to spend any real length of time on our shores.

I witnessed an horrible match between Ray Steel and a 'worker' (he couldn't work a slice of bread) called Red Mask and funnily enough I'm pretty sure that when Ray knocked out Red, he did so and meant it, as he had tried for 3/4 rounds to get the guy to engage and he wouldn't. Referee Big Joe even helped the downed masked man out of the ring with his boot, jabbing away at the guys kidneys, until he fell in a heap on the floor. Add to that match, Dory Funk jnr and Mike Padousis wrestling for a full hour (which felt like two) as both wrestlers took turns either walking or falling from the ring for the full duration of the match (very often staying outside for the full 19 seconds, then rolling in and rolling out again) and you have two matches where if I had been youngerI could have maintained ' how can they be worked, someone watching them, would never want to watch another wrestling match again'!

Wrestling, It's a funny old game!

MANCHESTER EST AUX ÉTATS-UNIS

Jackie Pallo had “never heard of P J Proby”, when he imitated his hairstyle.

I am not happy with the way this thread has developed.

I have invited you all into the confessional, on bended knee, to own up to what you belived back than - only to realise in this century that you had been taken in hook line and sinker.

The form of the contributions has taken the direction of merely listing promoters' and Kent's baloney.

But what, as a fan, did you truly believe and have to come to terms with as not being true later down the line?

Please answer personally, for yourself, and do not describe what others were gullible enough to believe.

• Peter5h Leon Fortuna really was from the Friendly Isles of Tonga rather than a teacher from South London

For the last twenty years I've mocked Leon Fortuna as the typical Dale Martin support wrestler on their uninspiring programmes . All unfair, of course, as he was a very worthy wrestler for years and if he'd lived in Wigan or Blackburn I would be singing his praises. Yes I believe he was genuinely from Tonga (I visited in 1988, my suitcase stayed in Fiji) and will be 80 this year. I don't know his whereabouts but it would be great if either he or a family member could get in touch and claim his place in our wrestling heritage.

Leon Fortuna really was from the Friendly Isles of Tonga rather than a teacher from South London

We were always told that any wrestler from Europe or Japan spoke "not a word of English". In fact most ot them spoke English on a scale from adequate to excellent

This one is a cracker Anglo. Can we really believe this bout was sanction by the French Board of Control.

Thanks Paul.

Your contribution just sums up what so many casual fans mistakenly believe.

The whole continuum of believability, even including a dash of legitimacy, went from white through many many shades of grey before turning black. The dismissive "It was all fixed" is way off the mark, and dangerously superficial.

Bits were real; much needed to be sold; egos were very very real and complicated matters.

The whole spectacle was so enjoyable that it was much more relaxing just to lap it all up and not be too critical.

The whole spectacle remains fascinating to unravel.

hmmm not sure my comments are relevant but here goes,looks over my shoulder.Certain promoters actually wound up non regular workers with tales of he doesn't work to order.some worked stiff out of pride,some and There Little Prince were hard to work with,pride and professionalism swapping places.Old uns like myself still tell of record crowds tussles with promoters, snow jobs,lie about money etc,never quite got this,even after all these years the porky pies come out.The promoters of joints and their support teams were masters of ego management and the game has to be protected . Before the onset of the weight watchers escapees into the game I looked at certain moves from respected colleagues and shook my head.funny how no one seemed to realise the tendon crack of a breaks special was sweat under his armpit and side being struck,but Jimmy mastered it.syd a great worker and Friend wound me up with his forward somesault from any back of the head slap and usually has a time lag.The posting was defied physics.The overlap of feet when put into an aeroplane spin.The crowd bought in be ause of the credibility and skills of the lads,so that in itself is a tribute to the game.

James Morton is having computer problems and has written:

When in March 1963 Hans Streiger 'The German Beast' flew from Berlin to deposit £200 with the Board of Control prior to his 'no-disqualification' match that evening at the Corn Exchange Kings Lynn with Randolph Turpin. It was not even top of the bill. That was Abdul the Turk 'complete with 'praying mat and compass' against Boyo Paul. [Who they?]

Fit Finlay was a SCOT!

Accepting championship matches were not pre determined

Wow David! Not only were you never gullible, you fail to relate to my gullibilities. Unfortunately your comments are based on anachronisms whether about bleached hair or Steve Logan Jr or Sex Pistols who hadn’t been invoiced in the sixties or early seventies under discussion.

I am enjoying everyone’s offerings. I am struck how positively nostalgic they are. Very few can be read as criticisms. This underlines to me the beauty of our suspension of disbelief or, even better, blissful ignorance.

The day I found out there was no Father Christmas was very sad.

Mick McManus was Southern Area welterweight champion.

Mick McManus was a welterweight.

Kent Walton telling us wrestlers had retired when they left Joint Promotions.

No one could defy the Andy Robbins powerlock.

> Johnny Kincaid was clearly from Barbados because that was the island of the blonds.

Wonder what you made of Bowie's (post-Angie) girlfriend/backing singer Ava Cherry? Or Simone Thomas of the Bromley Contingent when you saw the Sex Pistols Bill Grundy incident on the news? Plenty of black wrestlers have bleached their hair from Sweet Daddy Siki to Butch the Natural Reed. It's a particular copping-an-attitude thing in African diaspora cultures.

>Even though he was a bit arthritic in the ring, Mike Marino's fizzog assured that he really was invincible. Even in old age with his knees gone, Billy Robinson knew how to cripple you. Unlike another certain old man over in Calgary, he didn't need you to get down on the floor for him first. Mike Marino was no Billy Robinson but he was a charter member of the London community of shooters along with Milo Popocopolis that got Adrian Street started and had a rivalrly with both Riley's anc Charnock's gyms.

>When Saint or Kidd rolled into a ball, the opponent had no way at all of attacking them.

An opponent could drop an elbow or knee on them and get a public warning, otherwise what do you suggest they could do?