I have heard that some local Councils had become unhappy with the All-in style in the mid 1940's.Was the Mountevans style a sort of saviour of British Wrestling.Your opinions please.
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Unknown member
May 16, 2022
Away from the TV cameras and other bastions of respectability, over the decades some of the "horrors" of American wrestling were quitely re-introduced to the public on non televised usually indie shows (and occasionally Joint.) On television, masks were cited as a symptom of the American Disease while in the halls Bartelli, Doctor Death, the Mask, the White Angel, young Kendo Nagasaki and the Red Scorpion all abounded (even when a masked man appeared on 1960s TV, the Outlaw, he was claimed to be an American.)Bloody chain matches and ladder matches were kept off ITV (except the latter in the late 80s with disco music playing and the prize being a Phillips Laserdisc on the end of a spare bit of Xmas tinsle so no one took it too seriously). In 1988, Orig Williams went on BBC Breakfast Time and denounced those horrid Yanks with their snakes and their cage matches while meanwhile putting on cage matches on S4C. knowing it was in Welsh so no one in London would care. (14 years later, mister Snake himself was over here wrestling dream WWF vs WoS matches on All Star, Rumble and TWA shows - until he managed to starve his poor snake, but that's another story.)
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Unknown member
Jun 28, 2023
Replying to
Brawls outside the ring were becoming quite the thing in France by 1985:
By contrast, on ITV a year and a half later they had to have special stipulations to permit that sort of a thing (and I think it was to prepare TV audiences for WWF anarchy)
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Unknown member
May 12, 2022
I basically agree with Hack and Powerlock. Slambang Western Wrestling was just too much for 30s Britain so it had to go into some sort of upmarket alternative. Of course Britain might have caught up in the end (we have our share of deathcore garbage promotions in the UK too) but the downmarket US business model just didn't work in the UK because councils, unlike State Athletic Comissions, were unable to leave well alone.
Professional Wrestling was shown on the BBC the run up to the outbreak of World War Two in 1939.Admittedly this was to a potential 900 very wealthy homes in the Greater London area but this was long before the Mountevans rules.It returned in 1946 and in fact Mick Mcmanus made his TV debut in 1947 on the BBC.It could be argued that the BBC stopped showing wrestling after the Mountevans rules were introduced with ITV filling the void when it started broadcasting in 1955
@davidmantell As stated below Mick Mcmanus made his TV debut on the BBC in 1947.Also shown on the BBC in the late 1930s to less than a thousand very well off households in London
@davidmantell As the ITV network kicked in more and more regions had their own ITV Broadcast company I wonder if the last ITV station went live in 1960 hence full national coverage from then. Tyne Tees the company that serviced our area went live in January 1959.
Would not have made a great deal of difference. Pro Wrestling was televised in most Western European countries in the 1950's and 1960's without the Mountevans rules
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Unknown member
Jul 02, 2023
Replying to
So during what period were these showing local Old School Italian Wrestling? Most accounts have Italy dead as a territory by the 80s.
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Unknown member
Jul 10, 2023
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According to this:
https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/16764-french-catch/page/17/"I wrestled from 2001 to 2008, my generation was not of aware of any past shows, but it looks like there loads in the 50s, some in the 60s and then they suddenly stopped in 1965. A few years later a couple of Italian wrestlers who had been living abroad started running shows and even wrestling classes in Piedmont, by the Lake Maggiore. I got to meet their relatives but one of the two is still alive, aged 86. Fast forward a few years later, they were attempts of reviving the scene in Rome, early and mid-80s, first it was men, later on it was female wrestling. Again, I got to meet the trainer of the women. Then it all stopped again and the first all-italian league to run shows was ICW in 2001, little did we know we were anything BUT the first ones"
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Unknown member
Jul 10, 2023
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So if any Itlalian wrestling got shown on local private TV, it was the revivals run by these two.
In 1930s-1950s in the UK they had at least 3 brands of pro wrestling: all-in, XX century CACC and pro international freestyle, the latter later being modified became known (since November 1946 I believe) as Lord Mount Evans style of pro wrestling.
pro wrestling is in fact 'eternal', there never was a time when it wasn't present, they had it even 3000 years ago to entertain ruler, later it became more available and it became one of the most popular and affordable entertainments for the crowds, they changed names and styles of it countless number of times and it evolved depending on what kind of performance crowds needed, but it always was there, even in communist Russia they did have pro wrestling under the brand of 'cricus wrestling'. So yeah Mount Evans Rules is a brand...brands come and go, PRO WRESTLING STAYS FOREVER.
I don't think it would have been the death knell but I do think it would have slowed down the post war wrestling revival. In the Years of Wrestling series we have demonstrated that there has been a lot of nonsense written about wrestling in the 1930s. It wasn't the wild west country often portrayed but there were certainly some bad practices that had come into the business, often disguising the good wrestlers that certainly existed (much like the 1970s I suppose). Problems were compounded with the onset of war. Again, we have demonstrated that wrestling did not close down as many have said. By 1945, though, many of the 1930s wrestlers were old, retired or dead, and there was a lot of negative publicity. The creation of the Mountevans rules was not a huge change, but it did allow promoters to portray a clear break with the "bad old days" and convince local councils that they had a new, cleaner legitimate product. To that end it was in the interests of the post war promoters to portray pre war wrestling in a negative light, which they did at every opportunity.
I don't think so ,This thing in general about All In or American Style Wrestling was sorted out by the branding of FREE STYLE. Some of the promoters pushed it with the councils , at the same time doing some good PR with Charity work as well.
It took longer in London to buy it and considerably delayed wrestling in Glasgow.
In most towns it was settled easily and for example in Hull , even All In was considered o.k. but then again Hull is a tough Rugby Town.
Away from the TV cameras and other bastions of respectability, over the decades some of the "horrors" of American wrestling were quitely re-introduced to the public on non televised usually indie shows (and occasionally Joint.) On television, masks were cited as a symptom of the American Disease while in the halls Bartelli, Doctor Death, the Mask, the White Angel, young Kendo Nagasaki and the Red Scorpion all abounded (even when a masked man appeared on 1960s TV, the Outlaw, he was claimed to be an American.) Bloody chain matches and ladder matches were kept off ITV (except the latter in the late 80s with disco music playing and the prize being a Phillips Laserdisc on the end of a spare bit of Xmas tinsle so no one took it too seriously). In 1988, Orig Williams went on BBC Breakfast Time and denounced those horrid Yanks with their snakes and their cage matches while meanwhile putting on cage matches on S4C. knowing it was in Welsh so no one in London would care. (14 years later, mister Snake himself was over here wrestling dream WWF vs WoS matches on All Star, Rumble and TWA shows - until he managed to starve his poor snake, but that's another story.)
I basically agree with Hack and Powerlock. Slambang Western Wrestling was just too much for 30s Britain so it had to go into some sort of upmarket alternative. Of course Britain might have caught up in the end (we have our share of deathcore garbage promotions in the UK too) but the downmarket US business model just didn't work in the UK because councils, unlike State Athletic Comissions, were unable to leave well alone.
Bernard
Professional Wrestling was shown on the BBC the run up to the outbreak of World War Two in 1939.Admittedly this was to a potential 900 very wealthy homes in the Greater London area but this was long before the Mountevans rules.It returned in 1946 and in fact Mick Mcmanus made his TV debut in 1947 on the BBC.It could be argued that the BBC stopped showing wrestling after the Mountevans rules were introduced with ITV filling the void when it started broadcasting in 1955
Power said"It probably wouldn't have finished wrestling but I think that it may not have made it to TV."
I believe that wrestling in UK was first shown about the 1960's. By that time many changes had been
made to the original rules, and were accepted as legal moves (Which made the bouts faster and more colourful) .
So if you are talking about TV, then you are not talking about the original rules.
Would not have made a great deal of difference. Pro Wrestling was televised in most Western European countries in the 1950's and 1960's without the Mountevans rules
In 1930s-1950s in the UK they had at least 3 brands of pro wrestling: all-in, XX century CACC and pro international freestyle, the latter later being modified became known (since November 1946 I believe) as Lord Mount Evans style of pro wrestling.
pro wrestling is in fact 'eternal', there never was a time when it wasn't present, they had it even 3000 years ago to entertain ruler, later it became more available and it became one of the most popular and affordable entertainments for the crowds, they changed names and styles of it countless number of times and it evolved depending on what kind of performance crowds needed, but it always was there, even in communist Russia they did have pro wrestling under the brand of 'cricus wrestling'. So yeah Mount Evans Rules is a brand...brands come and go, PRO WRESTLING STAYS FOREVER.
I don't think it would have been the death knell but I do think it would have slowed down the post war wrestling revival. In the Years of Wrestling series we have demonstrated that there has been a lot of nonsense written about wrestling in the 1930s. It wasn't the wild west country often portrayed but there were certainly some bad practices that had come into the business, often disguising the good wrestlers that certainly existed (much like the 1970s I suppose). Problems were compounded with the onset of war. Again, we have demonstrated that wrestling did not close down as many have said. By 1945, though, many of the 1930s wrestlers were old, retired or dead, and there was a lot of negative publicity. The creation of the Mountevans rules was not a huge change, but it did allow promoters to portray a clear break with the "bad old days" and convince local councils that they had a new, cleaner legitimate product. To that end it was in the interests of the post war promoters to portray pre war wrestling in a negative light, which they did at every opportunity.
I don't think so ,This thing in general about All In or American Style Wrestling was sorted out by the branding of FREE STYLE. Some of the promoters pushed it with the councils , at the same time doing some good PR with Charity work as well.
It took longer in London to buy it and considerably delayed wrestling in Glasgow.
In most towns it was settled easily and for example in Hull , even All In was considered o.k. but then again Hull is a tough Rugby Town.