Alas, Ruslan, I have no pics in which the inscription is discernible. If it's anything like Dr Death's White Angel victory cup it'll be inscribed as being presented to the winner of a wine waiters' race somewhere or other .... 😀
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Unknown member
Nov 19, 2021
Well, Ruslan, I can't help much with Johnny Allen or Glendenning. I know that in '64 Joint were billing him as "ex Mid Heavyweight Champion of Europe". When he linked up with Eric Taylor he clearly got his hands on the belt ... but for the life of me I can't see where he actually won it! (I guess the theory espoused above that promoters awarded themselves titles and belts is true).
Regarding Ray Glendenning, Jack Taylor was billing him as Junior Heavyweight Champion of GB in 67, but I think he then left and worked for Morrell, and so losing out on being 'promoted' by the indies.
I'm pretty sure it was the self same belt Jack used as European Light Welterweight Champion. He lost the title to Kevin Connealey in Wisbech in December '67. Then in the re-match for the title in May '68 Connealey was disqualified but kept the title (and, in theory the belt) but immediately jumped ship to Joint! I could never work out Jack's thinking on that one because he must have known Kevin was on his way - why let him take the title? Probably because few people would know ... but you can bet your life he wouldn't have taken the actual belt. Here it is boxed - and also around Kevin C's waist before his defection.
Martin, thanks so much for your reply and for all the details, much appreciated. Yes the Connealey photo shows exactly the same belt. I was concerned about Glendenning title claims, so it was 15st Jr. Hwt in 1967. Now we know that the article on Ray appeared either in 1967 or a little after that but he still claimed that title. Do you have any good quality image of the belt which shows the centre plate design or may be even inscriptions?
Hack, thanks, would you say that Stoker Brooks was an influential figure in WF of GB?
Influential? No. He was a wrestler. I don't think any wrestler was influential as wrestlers, the exceptions were those being those who got involved in the promotional side like McManus and Crabtree. That's not to say some were not valued as reliable, for instance Pallo was asked to report to the office his opinion on Johnny Kincaid when Johnny made his Joints debut against Pallo.
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Unknown member
Nov 18, 2021
For Ruslan ... this is as high res I can get right now ! .... sorry ... but I'm sure these are one and the same belt. And Glendenning had a share in it too .....
Martin, thanks so much for sharing, appreciate!!! To me, they look identical, it is the same belt!!! This belt was often around Jack Taylor's waist. By any chance do you have info when Farmer Allen and Glendenning held it?
As a youngster, I always looked at posters, looking for names I recognised or had heard of. The bulk of them, especially when I was very young, would have been from TV.
That was the ace-up-the-sleeve for Joint Promotions, having the TV exposure exclusively for themselves and their wrestlers.
As I got older, I was intrigued by any poster, whether I knew the wrestlers or not, and their pictures and descriptions often sold it for me.
If you were a full time wrestler, then working for Joint Promotions, and getting that date sheet through the post, outlining all your bookings for the following month, was probably a god send, having foresight of where your money was coming from for the next 30 days, and knowing you could pay all your bills.
If you could not commit to full time, because of your day job, or because you just didn't like relentless travel, then the independents were a god send, because you could still be a Wrestler, but doing it to suit your circumstances.
One area I didn't mention where the WFGB and other independents were important was as a breeding ground for young wrestlers. Many young wrestlers who became famous tv names with Joint Promotions, amongst them the Cortez brothers, Saint, Marquette, Kirkwood and lots more, started out in WFGB rings. The independents were also a refuge for Joint men, including Hayes, Marino, Bartelli and many more, who were unhappy with the pay and conditions at Joint. Many have told us that the independents paid more than Joint and could offer them more work, so the indies as a whole were a valuable pressure group.
I revise my conclusion.
Were the independents important (and that includes all the WFGB)? Yes certainly. Were the WFGB as an organisation important? Well I wouldn't say so. But you decide.
Hack, thanks, would you say that Stoker Brooks was an influential figure in WF of GB? The town of Barnsley was historically a very important place for popularization of Lancashire wrestling (read pro wrestling) in South Yorks, since probably mid 1860s. Never heard of Charlie's Junction Gym in Barnsley.
@ruslan-pashayev The gym was a boxing and wrestling gym, and Charlie Glover (father of Brian "Leon Arrass" Glover) was the main trainer there, and a wrestler himself.
Well, if most readers of this forum were asked, even some fans of the 1960s, my guess is that the majority would answer WFGB? Who? What? Television wrestling was solely Joint Promotions and they dealt with the competition by pretending it didn't exist. Wrestlers who left Joint to work outside the organisation would often be declared to have retired. So, those fans who watched only on television, and many who went to Joint halls were unaware of the existence of any independent promoters, let alone the WFGB.
But that gives a misleading impression of their significance. When I wrote the wrestling chapter of the Don Robinson book there was only one thing that Don took exception to and asked for changing. That was that as an independent promoter he was a big fish in a small pond. He insisted the independents were the big pond, bigger than Joint. He had a point. On any one night in the 1960s it was feasible that there were more independent shows (not all WFGB) than Joint shows. Many were in big halls, the Granby Halls in Leicester and Queens Hall Leeds were huge, many were in public and town halls like Joint, big cinemas like the Granada chain, but many were in small social clubs and working mens clubs where Joint would have been unwilling to promote. So in terms of numbers of shows the independents could match Joint. Not all independents were WFGB of course. I would estimate that of the WFGB promoters listed they would put on no more than 2 or 3 shows a night, mostly in big halls, which does fall short of Joint.
Were the WFGB important for those who watched their shows? Certainly, yes. For one thing without the WFGB and other independents many would have no access to live wrestling. Were their shows as good as Joint? At their best, yes, but they weren't always at their best, there were lots of inconsistencies. Joint Promotions shows were of a consistently good quality. Until the late 1970s wrestlers advertised to appear almost always did appear and their wrestlers were well trained. WFGB shows, and to an even greater extent, some of the other independents, were much more variable. Because of the way they functioned (see later) the chances of a WFGB show going ahead precisely as advertised were slim, substitutions were rife. Many independent wrestlers were just as good as Joint wrestlers (swapping between groups was fairly common) but there were wrestlers on all independent shows, including WFGB that had little experience and little skill. Not only that but the independent promoters were more likely to deliberately mislead fans by advertising wrestlers with similar sounding names to Joint wrestlers (Nick McManners, Billy Red Rivers, Frikki Starr) and this was true of WFGB members also, Cape and North Western being culprits. Did fans going to WFGB shows have as much enjoyment as Joint fans? I would say a resounding yes.
I mentioned functionality. Joint Promotions for all their shortcomings did co-operate to manage bookings of wrestlers, so at least wrestlers received a booking list in advance for the following month with their bookings around the country for various Joint members. I have asked around and not heard of any such arrangement with WFGB or other independents. Bookings were made by phone, face to face, or as we have read on this forum from those better placed than me by one wrestler arranging to bring a car load with him. So, Stoker Brooks might tell the promoter he would bring Butcher Goodman, Karl Von Kramer and Pedro the Gypsy and the promoter would advertise his show. On the day Butcher couldn't get time off work and Von Kramer was offered more money from a local promoter. So Stoker might take Blackburn Roberts and Max Raeger instead.
Although there are examples of one independent promoter helping out another I don't think there was really much, if any, organisation to WFGB as a body. They gave their headquarters as Don Robinsons offices in Scarborough. Robinson was a highly successull businessman in many spheres. The offices were there as headquarters of the Robinson organisation so were useful in providing an address but whether there's much more to it than that I doubt.
Joint Promotions literally re-wrote the rule book and established wrestling as a respectable form of entertainment. The WFGB made no impact of that kind. They just tried to replicate the image of Joint Promotions and fell short. As you know Norman Morrell managed to get Lord Mountevans donate his name to the 1946 rules and act as a figurehead to Joint Promotions - something we were reminded of at every show up to the 1970s.Not to be outdone by Joint and their Lord Mountevans pedigree the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain's figurehead and President was said to be Lord Corrigan. Corrigan was a Scarborough businessman and friend of Don Robinson who ran an amusement arcade in Scarborough, and was not a member of the Peerage. So whilst Joint Promotions transformed wrestling the WFGB did not.
Did WFGB have any lasting impact? Not that I can see. Started in 1962 and fizzled out six or seven years later, having provided a lot of fun on the way. By 1970 Robinson had bigger fish to fry, Cape had finished, Lincoln had gone, Taylor carried on but numbers at shows were well down.
So, did the WFGB make a contribution? Yes. Were they important? You decide.
Hack, thanks so much for all the details! Yes, to me, any detail related to the history of British pro wrestling is extremely important, literally EVERYTHING. And I have a question for ya - tell me more about Stoker Brooks, please!
It looks like (above) the promoters in the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain, or at least some of them, each awarded themselves a belt? Eric Taylor, Jack Taylor, Knowles Peters and Fred Woolley were all promoters, not sure about Ian St. John and Dai Sullivan, but I am sure someone can confirm or correct.
SaxonWolf, yes, each of these belts has its own unique history. The real, actual BWF (which predated WF of GB) belts are also seen on this pic Knowles and Jack Taylor are wearing them. Other belts have different origin, and were brought by promoters who were running those championships for WF of GB.
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Unknown member
Nov 18, 2021
Here's the indies' line-up of belts and champs from 1967 ....
Martin, thank you so much for sharing this unique programme with the photos of all the 1967 WF champions, appreciate!!! My concern is 2 belts from this pic, the lightweight held by St John and heavyweight held by Armstrong...aren't they very similar looking (if not the same). Could you please take a higher resolution photo of these two belts? Thanks again!
Lincoln was with the independents until December 1965. Taylor carried on into the early 2000s, albeit on a tiny scale by then.
John Allan went over to the independents at the end of 1968 when he began promoting with Eric Taylor (AT Promotions). As he had been a British mid heavyweight champion for Joint and a top rated wrestler until he left them it would have been very surprising if he hadn't declared himself champion. On the independents from 1969 he was British and European mid heavyweight champion. On some independents anyway, because as I keep saying they could say anything, and did. I don't recall Glendenning ever being a champion.
Thanks Hack, since Armstrong was champ after 1965, I am assuming it happened under Don Robinson and Taylor, right? That makes sense Taylor likely owned this belt and put it on whomever he wanted. How big or important was WF of GB during that time 1965-70?
Dear Friends, if anyone has magazines of the WF of GB please share here, any pic of the "official" belts would be HIGHLY appreciated.
The British Wrestling Federation and Wrestling Federation of Great Britain were different groups of independent promoters that opearted at different times.
The BWF was formed in 1958. In 1961 they listed their members:
he BWF of 1961 listed their members as:
Paul Lincoln Management
Matsport (Kidd, D'Orazio, Capelli)
Devereux
Conrad Davis
International Promotions (Jack Taylor)
Premier (Frank Price)
Twentieth Century Promotions (Max Crabtree)
In 1962 all the above except Lincoln and Taylor went into an association with Joint Promotions (Matsport ceased).
Shortly afterwards the independents re-grouped as the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain under the leadership of Don Robinson and Jack Taylor, their headquarters were at Robinson's office in Scarborough. I can't put a precise date on their formation but Jack Taylor's International Promotions were members of the British Wrestling Federation in July, 1962 and members of the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain four months later in November 1962.
I see your June 1962 North Western Promotion refers to the BWF so it looks like Jefferson joined just before they ended). He was a member of the WFGB.
In 1966 the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain listed these promoters as members.
Don Robinson Promotions (Wrestling Spectaculars Limited)
Cape Promotions (Danny Flynn and Fred Woolley)
International Promotions (Jack Taylor)
North Western Promotions and O’Shea Enterprises (Jack Jefferson)
Twentieth Century Sports (Norman Berry)
Northern International (Cyril Knowles)
Orig Williams
Paul Lincoln Managements
Lew Phillips
South Pier Promotions (Dominic Pye)
The Wrestling Federation of Great Britain fizzled out sometime in the late 1960s. However the name continued as the name used by promoter Orig Williams.
Armstrong and Woolley were champions of the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain. I don't recall seeing either as champions of the BWF. Armstrong certainly wouldn't be as he was working for Joint Promotions in the early 1960s. Woolley could have been but your Tewksbury June 1962 is the first time I recall him listed as BWF champ. (I haven't looked). As I've said many times they could and would call anyone champion of anything.
This is the first time I've seen Woolley labelled British middleweight champion.That was probably a mistake. He was often labelled British welterweight champion by the WFGB.
You comment on these being labelled free-style wrestling. Don't read anything into this. These words were used in an ad-hoc way. You will find examples of Joint shows calling themselves free-style.
Thanks for a very detailed answer Hack, appreciate. By the way Mount Evans style was often referred to as professional freestyle, so I am assuming they simply didn't want to call it Mount Evans because of the copyright, and used the name of freestyle instead.
So, in the mid 1960s when Armstrong was British Hwt Champ of WF of GB that organization included both Paul Lincoln and Jack Taylor. I am asking this question because Jack often used this belt at his own will and put it on whomever he wanted including himself, I am leaning to an idea that he simply owned it, purchased it at some point.
But yeah do you have Johnny Allen winning WF of GB heavyweight title? I am assuming all 3 of them Armstrong, Glendenning and Allen were champs at some point in the late 1960s.
SaxonWolf, I don't think so, I am pretty sure this particular belt was a property of the promotion which was running that British Heavyweight Championship.
Five instances of Armstrong as British heavyweight champion. Of course it doesn't rule out independent promoters putting any belt on him and calling him anything they wanted. Martin Robson was simultaneously billed as Lightweight, Light heavyweight and Heavyweight champion of Scotland. It was all nonsense.
Hack, wow, amazing material!!! Thanks for sharing. Here's what we have.
I see all three of them mentioned: Armstrong, Allen and Glendenning.
Here's a photo which matches it.
Your bills are dated, June 8th, 1965, July 27th 1965, and April 17th, 1966.
We have Jim Armstrong BRITISH HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION in 1965-66.
The style of pro wrestling is called: international freestyle.
Are British Wrestling Federation and Wrestling Federation of Great Britain the same, or they were different organizations?
Interestingly, Fred Woolley is called former middleweight champion. Which makes it clear that the organization we talk about is: BWF. Though I think they weren't quite accurate about his championship, he was WELTERWEIGHT title holder, not middleweight.
Hack, thanks so much, appreciate. I understand that the indys didn't have to follow rules of the organization which they weren't members of. That makes perfect sense. A friend of mine shared with me a photocopy of original Mount Evans Rules, I stare at it right now, clearly has 15st championship called Cruiserweight, but anyways.
My concern is the BWF or WF of GB heavyweight championship if that's what Armstrong held at some point between 1963-69. Plus we have to remember that there's a chance that it was NOT a heavyweight title, since we have Johnny Allen with the same exact belt, and we know he was a Cruiserweight champ, I don't know when that happened, don't know the year, unfortunately.
The Mountevans Committee did not recognise either Cruiserweight or Junior Heavyweight. They designated their weight divisions at a meeting on 12th December, 1946 and were:
Featherweight …... Upto 9st 11lb
Lightweight …... Upto 10st 8lb
Welterweight …... Upto 11st 5lb
Middleweight …... Upto 12st 2lb
Light heavyweight …... Upto 12st 13lb
Heavyweight …... Any weight
Joint Promotions then modified these to
Lightweight …... Upto 11st
Welterweight …... Upto 11st 11lb
Middleweight …... Upto 12st 8lb
Heavy Middleweight .... Upto 13st 5lb
Light heavyweight …... Upto 14st 2lb
Mid Heavyweight ... Upto 14st 13lb
Heavyweight …... Any weight
There were Cruiserweight titles for European matches in the 1940s and 1950s, holders including Mike Demitre, Norman Walsh, Dennis Mitcell, Jim Anderson, Mike Marino.
This is irrelevant as far as your photo is concerned as this is an independent publication between 1963 and 1969. I have seen independent promoters refer to a cruiserweight division, but as no one was ever weighed it was all a bit irrelevant anyway. The independent titles had no pedigree or value (until arguably the late 1980s when Dixon's heavyweight title could be traced back).
Incidentally although we tend to use the Mountevans rules as a reference to all promoters from the late 1940s onwards the term Mountevans was registered to Joint Promotion members and could not be used by independent promoters.
This article is prior to 1969 because it is clearly before Glendenning joined Joint Promotions.
After that time he would not have been referred to as a Junior Heavyweight Champion (there was no such weight division) and any reference to Emile Foy would be unlikely.
Hack, yes and no, that weight-class the 15st championship did exist under the Lord Mount Evans Rules of pro wrestling, though it was not called Jr. Hwt, but Cruiserweight. As for the belt, its that the same "my favorite" belt you probably remember my posts about various wrestler who held it. Here's what I have Johnny Allen, The Farmer held it at some point (I don't know when exactly) and I am assuming it was Jr. Hwt title. So to speak they all share weight class Allen, Armstrong and Glendenning, I am trying to figure out when exactly each single one of them was a champ. Like to have a rough time frame of their championships.
Poster is from 1969. I have Armstrong billed as Northern Counties Heavyweight champion from 1964. Posters tended to use any old photo so doesn't necessarily have any relevance to that show.
The Ost, thanks, that makes perfect sense. The Glendenning article says he was 32yo, I don't know his year of birth. But I think the article is from 1970-72, may be?
He was billed as British Heavyweight Champion Ruslan. Don't go looking for any logic in any of this. I'd be surprised if you could find him winning or losing the belt. He was a decent enough wrestler but it was just a useful tag by independent promoters to add a bit of interest. Dave Pirie, was a regular writer for The Wrestler magazine mentioned Jim Armstrong in the August, 1967 issue. He reported a show he had seen with Jim wrestling. He commented he had never heard of him. Now Jim had already wrestled for Joint, and he had been main event on the BBC Brighton show so he really should have heard of him, but does give you some idea of Jim's place in the pecking order.
Do you know the source of your Glendenning article? Looks like an independent programme which would make it 1960s.
Hack, thanks. So, we have Jim Armstrong as the British Hwt Champion, I am assuming in Paul Lincoln's Wrestling Federation of Great Britain (or was it British Wrestling Federation)?
Now about the BELT. This belt was used by many. I mean different promotions and of course it was significant of different titles throughout its long history. My concern is of course heavyweight championship (of some kind). Belt was large and perfectly fit only heavyweight's waist. Though, most frequently you will see this belt on Jack Taylor of Accrington and his proteges.
Glendenning is called Jr. Hwt (15st) Champion, I am assuming WFGB or BWF again, right?
Re the article on Glendenning. I don't know the source of this particular article, I wished I know where from it comes, I simply found it on Facebook. Here's what my dear friend Tony St. Clair shared with me: "...they had a monthly magazine similar to THE WRESTLER in the very early 60's, a bodybuilder/wrestler called LOU RAVELLE published and edited it...", there's a good chance that it was from that magazine.
Dear Hack, thanks so much, appreciate. I didn't know he was WFGB champion. Do you have info re which title it actually was British heavyweight, or may be Euro, or it was English, or North Counties?
Here's what I have Ray Glendenning, also heavyweight with the same exact belt. Have a look. I wonder which year is this reference.
Johnny Allan must have been late 1968 or later because that was when he left Joint to work with the independents.
Ruslan to get a good flavour of how the independents worked go over to the Places section and read the two series by Martin
The Wisbech Chronicles
Golden Days for Fenland
Alas, Ruslan, I have no pics in which the inscription is discernible. If it's anything like Dr Death's White Angel victory cup it'll be inscribed as being presented to the winner of a wine waiters' race somewhere or other .... 😀
Well, Ruslan, I can't help much with Johnny Allen or Glendenning. I know that in '64 Joint were billing him as "ex Mid Heavyweight Champion of Europe". When he linked up with Eric Taylor he clearly got his hands on the belt ... but for the life of me I can't see where he actually won it! (I guess the theory espoused above that promoters awarded themselves titles and belts is true).
Regarding Ray Glendenning, Jack Taylor was billing him as Junior Heavyweight Champion of GB in 67, but I think he then left and worked for Morrell, and so losing out on being 'promoted' by the indies.
I'm pretty sure it was the self same belt Jack used as European Light Welterweight Champion. He lost the title to Kevin Connealey in Wisbech in December '67. Then in the re-match for the title in May '68 Connealey was disqualified but kept the title (and, in theory the belt) but immediately jumped ship to Joint! I could never work out Jack's thinking on that one because he must have known Kevin was on his way - why let him take the title? Probably because few people would know ... but you can bet your life he wouldn't have taken the actual belt. Here it is boxed - and also around Kevin C's waist before his defection.
Ruslan:
Hack, thanks, would you say that Stoker Brooks was an influential figure in WF of GB?
Influential? No. He was a wrestler. I don't think any wrestler was influential as wrestlers, the exceptions were those being those who got involved in the promotional side like McManus and Crabtree. That's not to say some were not valued as reliable, for instance Pallo was asked to report to the office his opinion on Johnny Kincaid when Johnny made his Joints debut against Pallo.
For Ruslan ... this is as high res I can get right now ! .... sorry ... but I'm sure these are one and the same belt. And Glendenning had a share in it too .....
Great write up on WFGB, Hack, thanks.
As a youngster, I always looked at posters, looking for names I recognised or had heard of. The bulk of them, especially when I was very young, would have been from TV.
That was the ace-up-the-sleeve for Joint Promotions, having the TV exposure exclusively for themselves and their wrestlers.
As I got older, I was intrigued by any poster, whether I knew the wrestlers or not, and their pictures and descriptions often sold it for me.
If you were a full time wrestler, then working for Joint Promotions, and getting that date sheet through the post, outlining all your bookings for the following month, was probably a god send, having foresight of where your money was coming from for the next 30 days, and knowing you could pay all your bills.
If you could not commit to full time, because of your day job, or because you just didn't like relentless travel, then the independents were a god send, because you could still be a Wrestler, but doing it to suit your circumstances.
One area I didn't mention where the WFGB and other independents were important was as a breeding ground for young wrestlers. Many young wrestlers who became famous tv names with Joint Promotions, amongst them the Cortez brothers, Saint, Marquette, Kirkwood and lots more, started out in WFGB rings. The independents were also a refuge for Joint men, including Hayes, Marino, Bartelli and many more, who were unhappy with the pay and conditions at Joint. Many have told us that the independents paid more than Joint and could offer them more work, so the indies as a whole were a valuable pressure group.
I revise my conclusion.
Were the independents important (and that includes all the WFGB)? Yes certainly. Were the WFGB as an organisation important? Well I wouldn't say so. But you decide.
Stoker Brookes is in the A-Z
Great contribution Martin. Dead right SaxonWolf.
As for Ruslan's question of importance.
Well, if most readers of this forum were asked, even some fans of the 1960s, my guess is that the majority would answer WFGB? Who? What? Television wrestling was solely Joint Promotions and they dealt with the competition by pretending it didn't exist. Wrestlers who left Joint to work outside the organisation would often be declared to have retired. So, those fans who watched only on television, and many who went to Joint halls were unaware of the existence of any independent promoters, let alone the WFGB.
But that gives a misleading impression of their significance. When I wrote the wrestling chapter of the Don Robinson book there was only one thing that Don took exception to and asked for changing. That was that as an independent promoter he was a big fish in a small pond. He insisted the independents were the big pond, bigger than Joint. He had a point. On any one night in the 1960s it was feasible that there were more independent shows (not all WFGB) than Joint shows. Many were in big halls, the Granby Halls in Leicester and Queens Hall Leeds were huge, many were in public and town halls like Joint, big cinemas like the Granada chain, but many were in small social clubs and working mens clubs where Joint would have been unwilling to promote. So in terms of numbers of shows the independents could match Joint. Not all independents were WFGB of course. I would estimate that of the WFGB promoters listed they would put on no more than 2 or 3 shows a night, mostly in big halls, which does fall short of Joint.
Were the WFGB important for those who watched their shows? Certainly, yes. For one thing without the WFGB and other independents many would have no access to live wrestling. Were their shows as good as Joint? At their best, yes, but they weren't always at their best, there were lots of inconsistencies. Joint Promotions shows were of a consistently good quality. Until the late 1970s wrestlers advertised to appear almost always did appear and their wrestlers were well trained. WFGB shows, and to an even greater extent, some of the other independents, were much more variable. Because of the way they functioned (see later) the chances of a WFGB show going ahead precisely as advertised were slim, substitutions were rife. Many independent wrestlers were just as good as Joint wrestlers (swapping between groups was fairly common) but there were wrestlers on all independent shows, including WFGB that had little experience and little skill. Not only that but the independent promoters were more likely to deliberately mislead fans by advertising wrestlers with similar sounding names to Joint wrestlers (Nick McManners, Billy Red Rivers, Frikki Starr) and this was true of WFGB members also, Cape and North Western being culprits. Did fans going to WFGB shows have as much enjoyment as Joint fans? I would say a resounding yes.
I mentioned functionality. Joint Promotions for all their shortcomings did co-operate to manage bookings of wrestlers, so at least wrestlers received a booking list in advance for the following month with their bookings around the country for various Joint members. I have asked around and not heard of any such arrangement with WFGB or other independents. Bookings were made by phone, face to face, or as we have read on this forum from those better placed than me by one wrestler arranging to bring a car load with him. So, Stoker Brooks might tell the promoter he would bring Butcher Goodman, Karl Von Kramer and Pedro the Gypsy and the promoter would advertise his show. On the day Butcher couldn't get time off work and Von Kramer was offered more money from a local promoter. So Stoker might take Blackburn Roberts and Max Raeger instead.
Although there are examples of one independent promoter helping out another I don't think there was really much, if any, organisation to WFGB as a body. They gave their headquarters as Don Robinsons offices in Scarborough. Robinson was a highly successull businessman in many spheres. The offices were there as headquarters of the Robinson organisation so were useful in providing an address but whether there's much more to it than that I doubt.
Joint Promotions literally re-wrote the rule book and established wrestling as a respectable form of entertainment. The WFGB made no impact of that kind. They just tried to replicate the image of Joint Promotions and fell short. As you know Norman Morrell managed to get Lord Mountevans donate his name to the 1946 rules and act as a figurehead to Joint Promotions - something we were reminded of at every show up to the 1970s.Not to be outdone by Joint and their Lord Mountevans pedigree the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain's figurehead and President was said to be Lord Corrigan. Corrigan was a Scarborough businessman and friend of Don Robinson who ran an amusement arcade in Scarborough, and was not a member of the Peerage. So whilst Joint Promotions transformed wrestling the WFGB did not.
Did WFGB have any lasting impact? Not that I can see. Started in 1962 and fizzled out six or seven years later, having provided a lot of fun on the way. By 1970 Robinson had bigger fish to fry, Cape had finished, Lincoln had gone, Taylor carried on but numbers at shows were well down.
So, did the WFGB make a contribution? Yes. Were they important? You decide.
It looks like (above) the promoters in the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain, or at least some of them, each awarded themselves a belt? Eric Taylor, Jack Taylor, Knowles Peters and Fred Woolley were all promoters, not sure about Ian St. John and Dai Sullivan, but I am sure someone can confirm or correct.
Here's the indies' line-up of belts and champs from 1967 ....
MC
Lincoln was with the independents until December 1965. Taylor carried on into the early 2000s, albeit on a tiny scale by then.
John Allan went over to the independents at the end of 1968 when he began promoting with Eric Taylor (AT Promotions). As he had been a British mid heavyweight champion for Joint and a top rated wrestler until he left them it would have been very surprising if he hadn't declared himself champion. On the independents from 1969 he was British and European mid heavyweight champion. On some independents anyway, because as I keep saying they could say anything, and did. I don't recall Glendenning ever being a champion.
The British Wrestling Federation and Wrestling Federation of Great Britain were different groups of independent promoters that opearted at different times.
The BWF was formed in 1958. In 1961 they listed their members:
he BWF of 1961 listed their members as:
Paul Lincoln Management
Matsport (Kidd, D'Orazio, Capelli)
Devereux
Conrad Davis
International Promotions (Jack Taylor)
Premier (Frank Price)
Twentieth Century Promotions (Max Crabtree)
In 1962 all the above except Lincoln and Taylor went into an association with Joint Promotions (Matsport ceased).
Shortly afterwards the independents re-grouped as the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain under the leadership of Don Robinson and Jack Taylor, their headquarters were at Robinson's office in Scarborough. I can't put a precise date on their formation but Jack Taylor's International Promotions were members of the British Wrestling Federation in July, 1962 and members of the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain four months later in November 1962.
I see your June 1962 North Western Promotion refers to the BWF so it looks like Jefferson joined just before they ended). He was a member of the WFGB.
In 1966 the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain listed these promoters as members.
Don Robinson Promotions (Wrestling Spectaculars Limited)
Cape Promotions (Danny Flynn and Fred Woolley)
International Promotions (Jack Taylor)
North Western Promotions and O’Shea Enterprises (Jack Jefferson)
Twentieth Century Sports (Norman Berry)
Northern International (Cyril Knowles)
Orig Williams
Paul Lincoln Managements
Lew Phillips
South Pier Promotions (Dominic Pye)
The Wrestling Federation of Great Britain fizzled out sometime in the late 1960s. However the name continued as the name used by promoter Orig Williams.
Armstrong and Woolley were champions of the Wrestling Federation of Great Britain. I don't recall seeing either as champions of the BWF. Armstrong certainly wouldn't be as he was working for Joint Promotions in the early 1960s. Woolley could have been but your Tewksbury June 1962 is the first time I recall him listed as BWF champ. (I haven't looked). As I've said many times they could and would call anyone champion of anything.
This is the first time I've seen Woolley labelled British middleweight champion.That was probably a mistake. He was often labelled British welterweight champion by the WFGB.
You comment on these being labelled free-style wrestling. Don't read anything into this. These words were used in an ad-hoc way. You will find examples of Joint shows calling themselves free-style.
I wonder if Jim Armstrong owned the belt?, and loaned it to others to wear?
Five instances of Armstrong as British heavyweight champion. Of course it doesn't rule out independent promoters putting any belt on him and calling him anything they wanted. Martin Robson was simultaneously billed as Lightweight, Light heavyweight and Heavyweight champion of Scotland. It was all nonsense.
Hack, thanks so much, appreciate. I understand that the indys didn't have to follow rules of the organization which they weren't members of. That makes perfect sense. A friend of mine shared with me a photocopy of original Mount Evans Rules, I stare at it right now, clearly has 15st championship called Cruiserweight, but anyways.
My concern is the BWF or WF of GB heavyweight championship if that's what Armstrong held at some point between 1963-69. Plus we have to remember that there's a chance that it was NOT a heavyweight title, since we have Johnny Allen with the same exact belt, and we know he was a Cruiserweight champ, I don't know when that happened, don't know the year, unfortunately.
You are right to a very limited extent Ruslan.
The Mountevans Committee did not recognise either Cruiserweight or Junior Heavyweight. They designated their weight divisions at a meeting on 12th December, 1946 and were:
Featherweight …... Upto 9st 11lb
Lightweight …... Upto 10st 8lb
Welterweight …... Upto 11st 5lb
Middleweight …... Upto 12st 2lb
Light heavyweight …... Upto 12st 13lb
Heavyweight …... Any weight
Joint Promotions then modified these to
Lightweight …... Upto 11st
Welterweight …... Upto 11st 11lb
Middleweight …... Upto 12st 8lb
Heavy Middleweight .... Upto 13st 5lb
Light heavyweight …... Upto 14st 2lb
Mid Heavyweight ... Upto 14st 13lb
Heavyweight …... Any weight
There were Cruiserweight titles for European matches in the 1940s and 1950s, holders including Mike Demitre, Norman Walsh, Dennis Mitcell, Jim Anderson, Mike Marino.
This is irrelevant as far as your photo is concerned as this is an independent publication between 1963 and 1969. I have seen independent promoters refer to a cruiserweight division, but as no one was ever weighed it was all a bit irrelevant anyway. The independent titles had no pedigree or value (until arguably the late 1980s when Dixon's heavyweight title could be traced back).
Incidentally although we tend to use the Mountevans rules as a reference to all promoters from the late 1940s onwards the term Mountevans was registered to Joint Promotion members and could not be used by independent promoters.
This article is prior to 1969 because it is clearly before Glendenning joined Joint Promotions.
After that time he would not have been referred to as a Junior Heavyweight Champion (there was no such weight division) and any reference to Emile Foy would be unlikely.
Poster is from 1969. I have Armstrong billed as Northern Counties Heavyweight champion from 1964. Posters tended to use any old photo so doesn't necessarily have any relevance to that show.
He was billed as British Heavyweight Champion Ruslan. Don't go looking for any logic in any of this. I'd be surprised if you could find him winning or losing the belt. He was a decent enough wrestler but it was just a useful tag by independent promoters to add a bit of interest. Dave Pirie, was a regular writer for The Wrestler magazine mentioned Jim Armstrong in the August, 1967 issue. He reported a show he had seen with Jim wrestling. He commented he had never heard of him. Now Jim had already wrestled for Joint, and he had been main event on the BBC Brighton show so he really should have heard of him, but does give you some idea of Jim's place in the pecking order.
Do you know the source of your Glendenning article? Looks like an independent programme which would make it 1960s.
Its 1969 Ruslan.
The clues are
Its pre February 1971 because prices are pretty decimal.
August 1958 is a bit early for Dr Death, and early Dr Death appearances were not heavyweight, more middleweight.
This is an independent show and in 1958 Dempsey and Sands worked for Joint Promotions.
As for Jim Armstrong he was WFGB champion from 1965. The claim had no real lineage.