I must be coming quite well known now on this site for posting names of some lesser known wrestlers, those of whom have nevertheless managed to make some impact on the world of professional wrestling, although to be fair, perhaps in certain cases not a lasting influence as such.
Anyone remember this guy, who once in the ring was only too willing to show off his brilliant muscles and perfect body physique, a demonstration of which he gave to the crowd in the run up to every contest he entered.
Where is John is now I wonder?
Steve.
Hi guys,
Many thanks to all who recently contributed to my Forum post on former wrestler John (Mr Muscles) England.
Enjoyed reading your comments guys & have also looked at the Q & A discussion with John too, which, because I was away from this site for the whole of 2020, I simply had not seen before.
Great that John is still around today and still keeping fit in weightlifting too.
Equally good that many of John's matches are available to watch on utube, those of which never fail to display his entertaining & crowd pulling style.
Regards to all,
Steve.
Stephen Davis.
No, I don't know what happened there Stephen. Here's the original thread.
Q and A with John’Muscles’ England.
leonard.frank1 Johnny England? Is he still with us? I always felt he under achieved and would be keen to learn more about him. Anyone got any info? Cheers. 47 comments
Anglo Italian Mar 16, 2020 Even though he was unashamedly eighties, I rather admired him. I thought he really threw his lot at his gimmick. And boy did he sell his opponents' moves. But I don't know much about him.
leonard.frank1 Mar 16, 2020 He seems to be a bit of a mystery. He never really for-filled his potential or more to the point probably wasn’t allowed to for fill his potential by the powers that be. I thought he was always good valu. C’mon! One of you must know more 😁
Hack Mar 16, 2020 I always liked him. He was at the Kent Reunion a few years back. He could always come on here an tell us what he's up to. SaxonWolf Mar 16, 2020 John is still around, still lifts weights and in good shape for a bloke in his early 70's. Best mates with the late Pat Patton
SaxonWolf Mar 16, 2020 He told a story of how he went for a trial with Max Crabtree (John and Pat Patton went together) at a farm up in Yorkshire with a ring in a barn. Marty Jones was there, along with another wrestler (can't remember who, it will come back to me). I am sure he said that, just to see if they could take puishment, Marty Jones game Johnny something like 20 body slams, back-to-back.
SaxonWolf Mar 16, 2020 Here's a quick quiz for you all! What is the connection between the number one hit song by Blondie, "The Tide is High", and Johnny "Mr. Muscles" England?
leonard.frank1 Mar 17, 2020 Was he in the video? Good to hear he’s still pushing on. Would be great if he does pop in and say Hello. C’mon John! SaxonWolf Mar 17, 2020 No, he wasn't in the video, as far as I know. I'll leave it a little longer and then give the answer, if no one gets it. Bill Smith Mar 17, 2020 · Edited: Mar 17, 2020 I saw him put Mick McMichael over at Doncaster,much to the crowds delight.Very good performer who made the local lad look good,By the way Mick was good. SaxonWolf Mar 17, 2020 In my earlier comment, I mentioned two wrestlers who put Johnny England and Pat Patton through a grueling "trial" at Max Crabtree's farm, up in Halifax area. The other wrestler (along with Marty Jones) was Peter "Tally-Ho" Kaye. Graham Bawden Mar 17, 2020 I remember his pre bout ritual of posing, and flexing his muscles. This would drive his opponent mad. Vividly recall a bout versus Alan Dennison with a straight arm lift submission for Dennison. Lights out for Johnny Mr. Muscles England. SaxonWolf Mar 18, 2020 "....What is the connection between the number one hit song by Blondie, "The Tide is High", and Johnny "Mr. Muscles" England?....." OK, no one was biting at this one, even though anyone could have found the answer, or guessed at it. Blondie had a world wide hit with "The Tide is High", a cover version of an original song by a Jamaican vocal trio, called "The Paragons" in 1967, written by one of the trio called John Holt. John Holt is the real name of Johnny England (as far as I know!) Quiz over! johnnymusclesengland Mar 18, 2020 The reason I left Crabtree was because of the bout now on you tube against tiger mask ! He forgot the finishing fall after 3 further attempts I walked out ! Just about to walk into the dressing room and I heard Crabtree say you should have screwed the little bastard Sammy ! which he could have the guy was a shooter ! A master at martial arts but at that time a shit pro ! Later when he had mastered the art he was amazing those matches with dynamite ! I had a lot of respect for Max ! But that was my reason for finishing with him ! johnnymusclesengland Mar 18, 2020 Hi Johnny England here ! SaxonWolf Mar 18, 2020 Hurray! At last! Johnny, quick question, and not the most interesting one I guess, but were you involved in Wrestling in Blackpool, near the famous Blackpool Pleasure Beach?, this would be early 90's I would say. A pal of mine bought one of those inflatable bouncy castles, and had it on the sea front in Blackpool, can't remember how long he had it there for, maybe a couple of seasons. Anyway, I remember taking my kids to Blackpool for the day, to catch up with my pal, and he said that you and a group of Wrestlers were around, I assume working either on the sea front or in one of the bars near by. Like I said, not the most interesting question, but me and my pal (late pal, no longer with us) grew up on Wrestling, so he was quite happy to have seen you. Thanks! johnnymusclesengland Mar 18, 2020 Yes my man correct ! SaxonWolf Mar 18, 2020 Another thing, I remember seeing you on Youtube, talking about weight lifting and wrestling and stuff. Interesting story as to why you walked out of Joint Promotions, so maybe you could start by telling us how you got into Wrestling and why you left Max Crabtree to go to All Star. johnnymusclesengland Mar 18, 2020 got into wrestling from an ad max crabtree placed in health & strength magazine FOR ANY Bodybuilders wanting to try out ! plus having won MR UK, MR ENGLAND,In 1974 and 1976 and MR EUROPE, IN 1970, hence the trips to the farm with Patton ! Turned pro in 1977 ! SaxonWolf Mar 18, 2020 Great stuff, thanks for the answers. I know that Pat Patton was your mate, did you tend to hang around in the same circles (by that I mean, was it always the same group of wrestlers you tended to mingle with) like all from the same area? Any particular wrestlers you met, who you became good mates with and maybe kept in touch with for a while? Any that were particular grumpy types who you didn't like working with? johnnymusclesengland Mar 20, 2020 Regularly only patton. we lived close same area cannock staffs. no to be honest good bunch of lads overall !
leonard.frank1 Mar 19, 2020 A direct answer from John himself! I wasn’t expecting that. Nice one, hope all is well with you John and thanks for posting. RON HISTORYO....Time Cop, Mar 19, 2020 What a fantastic result for you Frank and great to see old wrestlers come on here leonard.frank1 Mar 19, 2020 Thanks Ron, that looks like a pretty good night’s wrestling! It is great to hear from any of the old school and even better to hear those stories straight from the houses mouth. Great days that we’ll never see the likes of again and should never be forgotten. Good to know there’s still plenty out there who remember it all as fondly as I do. Even though deep down we knew it wasn’t real you could still lose yourself in it or just admire the skill involved in putting on a good show. Stick around John! Anglo Italian Mar 19, 2020 Another sign of being a great pro is coming on here and interacting with us die-hard fans - so many thanks John, well done. That's a fascinating tidbit about Max's ad. What was it that made you respect him so much?
johnnymusclesengland Mar 20, 2020 he was great at putting matches together he would call the 2 guys who were about to go on and ask them what they were going to do first telling them result ! you over 2 - 1 round 3 first fall ( hears what we'll do ) he would talk them through the fall submission etc, equaliser same and so on ! my match he would ask the same i would say what i fancied he always said DO IT ! respect !
johnnymusclesengland Mar 20, 2020 Patton and myself worked a lot together practice makes perfect yes ! we were going on just before mick mcmanus so he didn't want the crowd lifting to high so a 6 round draw ! Hard to get any heat ! I took the first fall ( actually this match is on you tube ) let me know what you think lol. !! Bill Smith Mar 20, 2020 Thanks for your contributions John.Glad you are still in good health,and keeping fit. SaxonWolf Mar 20, 2020 "...HI both were great pro wrestlers Marty helped train me ! Pat lived close to me, for a guy 6 feet 6 he moved well, would have be a great match !.." I totally agree that both were great pro wrestlers John, my point was that in 1979 (from memory) Marty had not "filled out" and would have looked tiny at the side of Pat Roach. That is all I meant by the term "mismatch", I didn't mean it would not have been great to watch (neither of them were usually ever in a bad match!). Pat Roach was wrestling the likes of Haystacks and John Quinn in 1979, in singles matches or tagging against them with the late Wayne Bridges. He was in a wrestling tournament facing Ray Steele and Gwyn Davies. These blokes would have looked (to the public) like a fair match up with big Pat. That's all I meant. johnnymusclesengland Mar 20, 2020 Sorry got ya ! I became great friends with John Quinn he was over here for 12 months he came close to killing max Crabtree 12 months working the gee for big match at Wembly stadium SOLD OUT ! I wasn't there but this was suppose to be John's big payday ! From a good source I heard Max gave him £35.00 ! It took three guys to drag him of Max ! Bill Smith Mar 21, 2020 @johnnymusclesengland Shame that there were 3 other guys present when "Scattercash" Max paid Mr Quinn.
leonard.frank1 Mar 20, 2020 Must be so frustrating when your told not to raise too much heat before the next bout! Having to keep it fairly low key when you know you could get the crowd going must be hard work. Gotta say I’m loving these stories and could listen to this stuff all night! When you have time I’d love to hear about your training regime and how you built a body like that! johnnymusclesengland Mar 20, 2020 Ok not trying to push my you tube channel ! but its all on there just put in johnny england
leonard.frank1 Mar 20, 2020 Cheers Mate. I’ll check it out.
mateydave Mar 21, 2020 what can i say apart fourom you came accross as a bit of a lad who rode with the punches. did you enjoy bouts with les kellet. does your body tell you about getting old johnnymusclesengland Mar 23, 2020 To be honest NO, I found it hard work plus those slaps across chest ! Jesus had the marks for a week after. lol johnnymusclesengland Mar 23, 2020 Old yeah lol, still work out 3 days a week, but old injuries sometimes make it hard 1981 dislocated Jaw in Africa a present from Pat lol but not on purpose ! 1983 complete dislocation of left knee 3 months in hospital partial paralysis calf and foot, special boot allowed me to carry on wrestling until I retired age 52 ! BUT Left knee replaced 12 months ago and can now work legs like I used to ! Many thanks to MR Dan Banks who did the op at Cannock hospital who is also a power lifter ! Funny 2 days ago Jaw clicked out eating a apple lol yeah at 72 they come back and Haunt you lol. mateydave Mar 23, 2020 @johnnymusclesengland please don't take this the wrong way but do you have a bucket list that you are working through, eg: anywhere you would like to go axonWolf Mar 23, 2020 How did the trip to Africa come about John?, was that a local promoter? Who else went from the UK, apart from yourself and Pat Patton? Did you do much overseas travel in your Wrestling life? Did you wrestle full time, or were you still working a day job?
Hack Apr 10 "leonard.frank1 Mar 20, 2020
Must be so frustrating when your told not to raise too much heat before the next bout! Having to keep it fairly low key when you know you could get the crowd going must be hard work You're right Frank. Yet a few years ago Anglo Italian and I spent a wonderful evening with Bob Kirkwood. He told us of his admiration of Paul Lincoln as promoter. One of the things that he told us was that Paul would take time to explain to wrestlers the role they played in the success of the show. If you were a preliminary wrestler being instructed not to raise heat it was explained the importance of this role. That was a good promoter who made everyone on the bill feel valued. Bob was not so complimentary about the time he moved to Joint Promotions. So, maybe not so frustrating if you had a good boss.
I know that I saw a Johnny England at Newcastle in the early 50's who posed his muscles and held up the bout.
What year did "Muscles" start his career please?
Johnny has been on this site, answering questions, last year I think. He is still a weight lifter.
John England was an entertaining (IMO) wrestler,who loved to rile the crowd.I knew he would not win,unless he "cheated" but I enjoyed his bouts.I wish him well
Careful. He reads this forum from time to time ... 😉
John is certainly around and was at the Kent Reunion a couple of years back.
https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/q-and-a-with-john-muscles-england