Mal Sanders,The infamous Mouth of The South

I had not thought about that before bur perhaps Mick McManus retiring did have quite an effect on how much loyalty some wrestlers had towards Joint Promotions. As quite a few wrestlers left in 1982, around the time that McManus retired, including Mark Rocco, Kung Fu, Johnny Saint, Jackie Robinson and Mike Jordan. I think that Wayne Bridges and Brian Maxine left in 1983 and Mal Sanders left in 1984. Maybe McManus retiring was the end of an era in more ways than one.

It sounds like, as soon as McManus hung up his boots, the lads no longer felt any loyalty to Joint Promotions.

We know he operated with discipline in his own work (showers, shaved armpits, punctuality, defending the game). He led from the front and demanded the same discipline from the rest, it appears.

Yes Anglo Italian, Dynamite Kid did wrestle Mick McManus quite a few times early in 1978. I saw that they had quite a few bouts in a list of old results that I do not have in full anymore but two bouts that I kept a note of were a 2-1 victory for Dynamite Kid over Mick McManus in Wolverhampton on 31st January 1978 and then a bout between them in Wolverhampton for the European Middleweight title on 11th April 1978 (only 2 weeks before Dynamite left for Canada) which ended in a stoppage win for McManus. It was these bouts that made me think that Dynamite was maybe being lined up to take the title from McManus later in 1978.

I think that McManus and Max Crabtree were trying to liven up the championship scene with all the new champions they made in the 1976-1978 period. However, within a few years only Marty Jones and Steve Grey were left at Joint Promotions. Dynamite had gone to Canada, Tony St Clair, Mark Rocco, Johnny Saint and even Mal Sanders had moved to All Star Promotions.

Yes, good that John joins in.

We really need Terry to join in, too. Terry, you start loads of topics but don't join in any discussion. Please don't go starting any more until you elaborate on your thoughts alongside Members who have been good enough to share their views in response to your opening.

I won't descend to any more bickering with closet-Southerner Hack.

John's words do start to get to the core of the matter. For me, it centres around the criteria of "fully justified being given a title".

For me, also, part of this needed to be the swearing of an oath, à la Goldbelt Maxine, that you would travel far and wide in the UK and hang around for a decade or more.

The alternative was, like Robinson and DK, that you claimed a title, made a name, then scarpered in self-interest for the megabucks. With scant regard for the colleagues, like the great Tony Scarlo, famously, that put you over, or the magnanimous McManagement that gave you the leg up.

Drifting off-topic very slightly, but still related to Mal: did McManus ever wrestle DK?

No need for a "sorry" John M. It's a relief to receive a sensible response. Times were changing and you're probably right that the notion of paying dues for a decade or more was a thing of the past, all those you name deserved their rise to the top. I suppose it was a necessity because many of the old timers (McManus, Capelli, Riley, Kellett, Logan, Bartelli and many more) had gone on too long and were in need of urgent replacement. You're also right to introduce Max Crabtree as a major player, there are others that think everything revolved around someone else.

Hello Anglo Italian and Hack, sorry to butt in your discussion about cheap red wine, delusions and trolling lol but going back to Anglo Italian's earlier point about Mick McManus (or Mick McMagnanimous) or Max Crabtree letting some wrestlers leapfrog others to a title belt and Hack's point about Mal Sanders maybe not 'paying his dues', they had allowed Dynamite Kid to perhaps do this when he won the British Lightweight Title when he was just 18 years old and just 8 months after his TV debut. I think that Dynamite Kid had fully justified being given a title and they maybe thought that they would try it again with Mal Sanders.

McMagnanimous and Max Crabtree had also recently given Tony St. Clair, Marty Jones, Mark Rocco and Steve Grey their first ever titles and they had all also fully justified being given their titles.

I'm so flattered that you are shadowing all my comments so keenly Hack, but, even worrying about "like" icons, it's getting close to trolling. You are confusing this serious business with your facebook activity.

Regarding Billy Robinson, then: as explained, with his MATSGA approach, in the late sixties McMagnanimous brought the national titles much closer to Brixton: Thomson, Boscik, Maxine, Marino, and certainly to wrestlers who wrestled on Dale Martin bills, such as Bert Royal. He banished those non-Southern wrestlers like Riss, Dempsey etc. Are you going to squabble about these facts, too?

It is clear he had the power to make these decisions. Robinson would not have become British champion without Mick's approval.

Robinson betrayed the promoters, the fans and the British industry. He let the prestigious title languish inactive for too many years. This was gross professional misconduct of the type not seen from Southern wrestlers. In view of Billy Joyce's similarly selfish behaviour, it is hardly surprising McMagnanimous was on the lookout for new reliable talent to carry the baton forward.

Cornwall's Tony St Clair and the champion of Kent, Wayne Bridges, along with Chatham's Judo Pete Roberts would develop and enliven the heavweight title scene reliably from the mid-seventies onwards alongside some exciting internationals. Once St. Clair had restored an element of stability, McManus then left the British heavyweight title to other JP promoters who brought along norterners Dalibar Singh and Ray Steele to trade the belt.

How successful were Singh and Steele, Hack, in showcasing the blue riband British title? Please answer as objectively as I have written.

Mick McMagnanimous indeed ... for Anglo Mick's path to sainthood continues. I don't know what they are putting in Anglo's cheap red wine these days but delusional seems to be one of the side effects.

As mentioned I didn't see Mal live, followed his meteoric rise on tv and in the distance. He seems to have by-passed the usual route of paying his dues over many years. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, I don't think I've ever heard a bad word against him. McManus had the power to bring this about, as for Mick bringing about the success of Billy Robinson, well that's just the red wine kicking in once again.

I vividly recall Mal's start, all yellow trunks and hair. The push was immediately clear to one and all even before he went on tv.

But Mick McMagnanimous was open about bringing on new talent and just as he had let Billy Robinson leapfrog the likes of Tibor to a national title ten years earlier, he did so with DK in the seventies.

Repaid with them both abandoning their pushes and absconding stateside, McMagnanimous returned to the reliability of South Londoner Mal who would go on to provide years of loyal service.

I never saw him as a baddie and can only recall his marvellous bewilderment mid-seventies at being roughed up by the likes of Boscik and Syd.

(I also have a sad Mal Sanders confession, but that's not for here...)

Good thinking John M. Although I've said elsewhere I think McManus went on too long (didn't they all) we cannot doubt his professionalism and I do think it likely that he would give consideration to succession planning. Mal was a protégé of Marino, another good professional and friend of McManus, so this would give him good credentials. We'll never know, but your idea seems logical to me, and certainly more feasible than McManus nominating Dynamite Kid - that I would find hard to believe,

Hello Hack, Mal Sanders was a good young wrestler but it was a surprise to me when he beat Mick McManus to win the European title. Looking back, I guess that Mick McManus was thinking that, as he was 58 years old, it was time for him to give up the title. I think that The Dynamite Kid was maybe being lined up to take his title. He had already won the British Lightweight, Welterweight and European Welterweight titles and early in 1978 was wrestling McManus a few times including beating him 2-1 on 31st January in Wolverhampton. However, the Dynamite Kid left to go to Canada in April 1978 to wrestle for a few months and did not come back. McManus was then left looking for someone else to beat him and Mal Sanders must have been the best choice left. I obviously do not know this a fact but it seems to make sense to me. I don't know what anyone else thinks?

Later in his career, I think that Mal Sanders was a superb heel as 'the Mouth of the South' and I love watching his bouts.

Thanks Terry. Your memory of Mal Sanders goes way after the time I remember him coming onto the scene.

To me, and the real mystery. Why was he one to beat McManus on TV? Why win the European title? Why win the Marino trophy?

I don't know Mal. Have no idea how good or deserving he was. But down the years I saw others good and deserving who didn't do so well.

Someone was looking kindly on Mal Sanders.