MORE MANCHESTER INVESTIGATIONS 1950's

My grandad was a pro wrestler in the last 50s to 70s maybe and I really want to know more about him since he didn't leave anything from his day with us. Nan kinda through his belts out but Ive been looking for a while and I can't find anything about him I heard he had many names but all I know is angry ant cause he was a short tempered British but if anyone could find anything it'd be much appreciated

Sam Betts grew a beard. When he was planning to shave it the promoter at the Embassy Sportsdrome in Birmingham, told him to wait and arranged a beard v beard, loser to shave match.

Thanks a million! I was only a young boy when Uncle Stan wrestled.. unfortunately he passed awaw a few years ago at 84 or 85 - but he used his real name Stan Furness most of the time and he was from Chorlton. I have some info about his daughter and grand ndaughter who was/is still living in Manchester. Stan was 1 of 10 children born into the Furness family, my mother May Furness was very close to Stan. They lived on Caldervale Avenue (Merseybank) Chorlton cum Hardy, Manchester - Stan met and married Dorothy and are survived/had 2 or 3 kids themselves, lived in Broken Cross (Macclesfield) I am familiar with his daughter never met her in person, butd have been in contact with fairly recently - I will dig up her Facebook details and forward this mail to her. Hopefully fill in some blanks

I am sure she can provide more up to date news and pictures etc.

Thank you for your effort and dedication to keep part of the Manchester culture alive.

Peter Behan, Baja California Sur Mexico.

Looking for any references to my uncle.. Stan Furness (the bearded Giant) from Manchester who wrestled in the 1950s and early 60s Thanks Peter Behan.

Great work boys!

This guy Borsos pops up at the Domino Club in Openshaw. Can't be Dale Martin's Tibor can it.

A couple of things I thought worth a mention on the two bills here. I go on about wrestlers doing several nights a week in different Manchester Clubs. But here the singer Madeline Bell who I remember in the group Blue Mink a few years later, probably illustrating that these two Night clubs were linked.

And at the Dev we have some Accrington Lads including St John v Svajick who were not that prolific in the clubs.

I wonder what the set up was? They seemed to have both a stage and a ring. The seats would need to be turned around to switch viewing angle.

It comes across as demeaning wrestling a little; at least distancing wrestling from sport and setting it within a music hall bill.

Something else I came across this week is how the clubs put the wrestling on. Fred and Danny left joint to do Cape Promotions ultimately , I catch them here at the start of their time after Joint. The bill on the left is a return challenge match from a few weeks before , that bill with Streiger on shows it.

But what I am driving at is the evening schedule. Wrestling is on at 8.00 after Frank Ifield who I remember so well , but only Fred and Danny. It's timed for 35 minutes. It's then nearly another one and a half hours before Wojjoski v Black Panther at 10,00. 3 acts in the middle plus tombola. I did not know this and find it fascinating. Did they think the crowd did not want too much at once , or for the wrestling to dominate. It certainly gives the wrestlers an early and late slot in order to flip to another club. the second bout is up to 50 minutes.

Bill benny had quite a few of these clubs , not sure of this one , situated very near BelleVue in Gorton. Maybe Eddie Rose could tell us more about the schedule fitting in with other acts.

Another fascinating bit of history Ron. I hadn't thought of cinemas as venues in the context of declining cinema attendance and the pathway to demolition.

Manchester Investigations was a really good read. I wonder if there's any mileage in a Cinema Investigations, looking at wrestling and cinemas around the country.

Just to add to this thread , I highlighted in the Manchesters series how often old cinemaas were tried out for wrestling before they were demolished. This was in the later 1950's and early 1960's. One venture , the Wryton actually worked long term , most were just short ventures. Back in 1952 I found The Queens Park Hippodrome closed and demolished , but before the bulldozers moved in a couple of wrestling shows. From the opening poster I think they were planning more than three shows. Not so sure they managed it.

Great Name Turkey Lane and even though I am a Manchester Lad I have never really understood the area of Monsall. Might be wrong , but I think it is part of Harpurhey , North Manchester. Never heard of this place , built in 1904 and never a cinema , but a piece of history salvaged. Wonder who the promoter was.

One month later they tried to get a boxing and wrestling club going. It could not have lasted long , at least not at this venue.

Free Trade Hall wins it.......Belle Vue is just names, Free Trade has capital letter names.

the elusive Adam king ,Adam King had a stable of women wrestlers trained above a pub near the Bijou cinema,Adam was a barber and according to my uncle they were no Hollywood blondes, try he old Trafford barber tried in vain to generate interest but the ladies lacked how shall I say ,visual appeal.

Just found some 1935 bills for The Blood Tub , thought it was worth adding here.

Of note , Doug Clark V Barotte (Boratti) who we never found any more about. Jack Alker and Joe Carrol who came from neighbouring parts of Wigan , wonder if the Carroll's trained Jack. Many I don't know. Big shock ladies wrestling at The Blood Tub in 1935. Real pioneer stuff. Historically very good bills to have. As always "click" for bigger image.

any mention of the BELLE VUE CUP/TROPHY?

Excellent Ron. Sounds like Saturday morning at the pictures.

Going back to Ardwick I have no 1930'sbills which led me to believe that the Blood Tub only began about the time of the war. How wrong I was , having now found regular wrestling in 1934. The promoter indeed was Sam Cowan , looks like he had a minimum sixteen year run there. This article gives a flavour of the times.

Slowly we have chipped away on this thread revealing the fate of some of these old Manchester Stadiums and a bit more about a few more.

Found boxing also in 1933.

I have heard Ernie Derbyshire ran the Russell club even though to me Conroy seems more prominent. Here is Ernie as ref there for Wryton.

I'm trying to get some info in the blood tub from few remaining with any recollection,I remember being told by Bartelli it paid well but was hard.Beech had some connection with Ardwick on organisation side so did a guy who ran the gym in Leigh itvwas at that gym I heard stories bout the blood tub,the Leighgym lad was working with the guy off hag fold Atherton who lost a lot of venues to Wryton was this a small scale northern version of Lincoln coup.ill do my memories of the club's another day Ernie Derbyshire ran a few in Manchester and wanted to referee,Wryton frowned on this. Said Ernie is the guy referenced in the quality st gang Im sure Eddie will remember him.

Good work Ron. Life would have been much easier, but not half as much fun decades later, if wrestling had not been so secretive.

Further info on Sam Cowan is that Morrell did not have Cossington Street baths in Leicester as early as we thought. Cowan was the promoter in 1946 , but again preferring not to put his name on the bills. All those 1946 bills in the gallery are Cowan Bills. This proves he was a wrestling Promoter so pretty sure he was the man at Ardwick now.

Source , several instances where he pushed wrestling in the paper in Leicester.(1946)

Cohen was a boxing promoter. But I think Bartelli's author has twisted the name it is Sammy Cowan. Cowan must have owned the Stadium as he brought boxers and trainers in there to train three days a week. Yes he was there to the bitter end when the car lot took over , so considering those times , he may well have kept the wrestling all those years especially if a booker could do all the work for him.

His name does not seem to appear on either boxing or wrestling adverts.

He looks a strong bet. Worth consideration until we gat our hands on some vital memorabilia.

Here is the Count.

I've just looked in "They Called Him the Count." Bartelli says the promoter at Ardwick Stadium during the war (he's specifically referring to the period up to 1942 when he joined up) was Sammy Cohen,and Cohen put on a Sunday afternoon and evening show.

This is a riveting thread, thank you Ron. I think Bartelli only worked for Wryton in his early days, for reasons previously alluded to. It's interesting to see Belle Vue and the Free Trades Hall on the same night. If only we could get an insight into Dick Rogers relationship with Joint.

Thanks for all the replies about the Cumberland Suite - it was news to me as I thought Belle Vue wrestling had gone for good with the closure of the Kings Hall.

Excellent research on the club Ron. Great topic.

The Roller Rinks were often used in the old days , at Rusholme they even had a Roller Hockey team , but it does not have a big wrestling history.

It looks a strange mix to me and maybe Anglo would have some good theories on what was going on here. For a small time at the end of 1951 they put some wrestling on , but WHO ?

On every bill the main participants had traveled up from the south. It was so Dale Martins. O.k. Co-operation was in the air , but this does seem strange.

Mc Manus came and Kwango , but all the usual suspects , Capelli , Unwin , Stedman , Fisher, Mancelli , Britton , Sparks and more. On any one week they would not all fit in one car. Thursday nights too , but switched to a Monday for Assirati v Garfield. Then the advertising goes missing......Short venture !!!

And I love to track down these places. Renovated and turned into a row of shops.

The Poster with Bob Monkhouse on mentions membership of 10 shilling for half a year. Adverts in general don't mention any prices. I am sure if they had the room and you had the money you could maybe get in. Or maybe a member could sign you in.

Social clubs tended to have cheap beer , but I bet these clubs added a bit on.

You can go in the Cavern in Liverpool and listen to live Music in the daytime for free , but there is easily a pound on a pint.

In a way Wryton formed a template putting wrestling into the Russell Social Club.

Conroy is there so much you could almost suspect it was his patch.

The Russell club did have cabaret later but I am thinking more Organ and Bingo at such a place.

Ted O'Leary is a name I haven't heard for many a year. The first show I attended at The Houldsworth Hall, Deansgate, Manchester, concluded with a tag match in which villainous coupling Ted O'Leary and Pete Lindberg faced Brendan Moriarty and "Golden Boy" Ian Wilson.

Fascinating stuff as always from you lads.

So just to make sure I am understanding this, were the clubs run in a similar manner to traditional working men's cubs, where your entertainment was all free (as long as you were a member) and the drinks were generally cheaper than in pubs?

Know what you mean boys , nothin I liked better than jumping on the train to Liverpool , nice ride , early dinner and into the Cavern Club to listen to live music.

Free if you get in before Miday. It's been a year now and I just don't know how many of those artists may never come back. For as long as I need to wear a mask on a train , I just don't think I will bother.

Moving on , I reported in my Manchester series that the Levenshulme Sporting club had been the Palais Dance Hall , but it is clear from the 1958 Manchester Evening News that the Sporting Club was born out of the Skating Rink , so a little confusion. 1958 was pretty much the first year any wrestling went into the Manchester Night Clubs. The Russell Club in Hulme was a bit earlier , but that was more of a social club than a full blown Cabaret set up.1958 only had a few shows compared to the Blitz that was to come that lasted until about 1963.

But clearly there had been some experimentation during 1958 before an announcement was made. Wrestling in these clubs had to have a link man , and here is the link revealed. Bill Benny is our man and these are the clubs he was involved with

Grand opening plans and one of the bills the following year.

You can see examples of two of the other clubs trying wrestling out earlier in the summer of 1958. One assumes it worked and Bill Benny committed to it.

Somewhere people with money were backing these clubs. The Moss family were involved with others like the Domino club and the College Theatre. It's a tangled web.

I know Jim Lewis was connected to The Dev and I have my suspicions that Bernard Manning may have been tied up with the Northern in Harpurhey.

Clearly some wrestlers liked this night life , Bertie Topham went on to have his own club. Streiger and others like Thornton cut their teeth here. Derek Oldham settled in as Big Mike McGurn and Bomber Bates ended his days on this circuit.

Bill Benny , a flamboyant showman even got some parts in films and loved the girls. For him and Bates it all came to an abrupt end in the early 1960's.

Bill Benny in 1950.

Best wishes to yourself also. I'm hating this lockdown. Although I haven't promoted any wrestling since '87, at the time of lockdown last March I was promoting a weekly jazz show in Wilmslow and I really miss putting those on. Also, sadly, the shows played to an older audience and I already know of three who have passed on since this virus took hold. And when things do recommence, will my older audience still have the confidence and the desire to come out again to a live show? The whole thing's a sorry mess!

The name Harold Weller rings a bell. I was given his number by Bobby Barron who recommended a lady wrestler called Goldie Wells whom he had trained. I asked Dave (Bob) for Goldie's number so I could book her directly but Dave said that I had to go through Weller. I telephoned him but he was very possessive and I realised that I wasn't going to be able to book Goldie Wells without Weller virtually taking over the show so I left it.

Can't quite see the Beeches running a Manchester venue as I think they lived out St Helens way , but you never know. purple Mask , my tip is Bob Silcock , after all he did Blue and Red and kept getting unmasked , great mentor of Talent though.

So some mystery over promotions at Ardwick , but onto Wryton now on Friday nights. Levenshulme Skating Rink was probably a mile form Belle Vue in Gorton.

The sensible thing was to do Friday nights and that they did for at least 1948-1954 where Bartelli was a big star. Covered in my Manchester series but I can now reveal that it came to an end in 1954. Some of the structure was left up to make a sports club , the Levenshulme Sporting Club, that also doubled as a members night club. More about that club and club wrestling later.

The final bills that went in the paper were these.

Also bordering Gorton , but on the other side was Openshaw ,Wryton were not giving up although they were a bit nomadic with Manchester venues. No doubt their own Stadium in Bolton in 1958 was the eventual answer for Fridays.

But the new home was the Whitworth Hall in Openshaw on the Old Ashton Road.

Bartelli in his pomp , Jack Fay (Ernie Riley) and Billy Howes evident. Here are some of the early bills after the switch.

So the end of the Skating Rink caused the end of the Wrestling.

It's not a big pool of wrestlers, is it Ron?

George Finnie, Purple Mask and Billy Howth squeezed in as often as possible. But Jim Hussey and Bernard Murray in there too.

Mind you, this was 1950. The promoters had sorted out the free for all rules, but it was now a case of free for all promoting. Talent and matchmakers were all jostling for their positions; just look how many didn't "make it" to JPs.

Once they had both proper rules and serious promoting sorted out a couple of years later, the business was set to boom.

Thanks for sharing this fascinating set.

I wrestled at the Cumberland Suite for a Jewish Charity. Good show and a full house; the drawback was that Bernard Manning was the MC. We knew each other and he kept referring to me over the mike as Mr Grecian 2000. I had no comeback! Eddie Rose

You are right Anglo and I saw the Hall almost full circa 1969 to perhaps have less than a thousand at some shows in 1978. The seats were fixed benches and very old.

But if you think that was bad , I am moving on now to a venue called the Blood Tub , Ardwick Stadium. I am hoping we can solve a mystery or two about this as I have spoken to Hack and we are not entirely sure about the promoter. I always thought it was Wryton. For sure I have Jeff Condor there in 1942 and he was almost exclusively Wryton. In 1950 I note Jim Hussey and Jack Fay (Ernie Riley) and Billy Howes. But the bills don't say. I wonder if MM or Ostie have any memorabilia that could solve this. Whoever the promoter was , he was going head to head with Dick Rogers at Belle Vue on a Saturday night.

But here is my gem for today. What happened to the Stadium and when. Well a detective follows the trail and suddenly the bills in the paper dry up with no reports as to what had happened. A few years later an article about the blood tub talking very much in the past tense of the "Old Days"

Well I have here for you the last bills ever and the following year , the fate of the stadium. See bottom right. Nice to record this on here as I believe it to be a genuine discovery.

Just noticed MM thread on this stadium. https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/the-blood-tub-ardwick-stadium-1942-43

Unfortunately the Promoters are not mentioned. This as a mystery.

Those very regular Manchester bills just go to underline how Graham's repertory list of wrestlers really darted back and forth all over the country. Kellett seemed domiciled in London; Logan was for ever on in Manchester and L'pool. Kirk, Marino, Haggetty - they were simply everywhere, all the time,

How on earth did they manage all that travelling?

I can only repeat that in 1981 I dragged along some reluctant friends for a show at Belle Vue. Big Daddy topped the bill. Maybe we were in cheap seats, but I can just remember the benches, fairly uncomfortable, and a big oval arena, with lots of pillars. Cold, too. It wasn't a great night, unfortunately. Needless to say, they were not converted.

It must have been quite something in the old days. I even wonder could the most ardent enthusiast afford to go to every show. Some people loved it , it was such an escape from often a dour life in the factory all week.

Wednesday and Saturday Wrestling was sacrosanct , but so too was Bank Holiday Wrestling. 1951 Easter was an example of what happened every bank Holliday. Five shows in eight days.

Jack Pye did three shows.

My own father-in-law told me Bill Benny was second only to Jack Pye in getting this great crowd going. They loved him.

Old Allan combined an afternoon watching Broughton Rangers with an evening at the wrestling with his mates.

I attended wrestling shows at The King's Hall, Belle Vue, most Saturdays during my sixth form period between 1970-72 and then less frequently between 72-75 when I was a student at Leicester. I started promoting myself in 76 and attended a handful of Crabtree shows until the hall closed down. I only attended one show at The Cumberland Suite and it was a Cassidy show. All I remember is Big Chris fighting Little Chris (Hellcat Haggetty versus Lolita Loren) as the top of the bill.

I well recall my first visit to Belle Vue. I had seen some Wryton shows at The Gaiety Theatre, Rhyl, in summer seasons but had yet to see Mick Mc.Manus live so attended my first ever Morrell and Beresford show towards the end of 1970 with Mc.Manus and Logan topping the bill against The Magyars (Peter Szakacs and Kalmon Gaston). Albert "Rocky" Wall faced Peter Stewart, Johnny Saint fought a fast-moving affair against Mick Mc.Michael and the opener was Deep River versus Andras Swajcsic.

In the winter I attended the circuses. I am a huge fan of clowns and at Belle Vue I saw the great Coco and, when the Moscow State Circus paid a visit, the legendary Oleg Popov. My wrestling attention whilst the circuses were on transferred to The Houldsworth Hall in Deansgate, Manchester, where Cassidy/Carpentier would regularly promote and I would see names that did not appear at Belle Vue including Lord Bertie Topham, klondyke Jake, Orig Williams, Billy Graham, "Romeo" Joe Critchley, Pedro the Gypsy, Melvyn Riss, Majid Ackra and the girls. Many of those were to work for me from 76-87.

I saw many excellent shows at Belle Vue but one which I recall with particular affection was the only appearance at Belle Vue that I witnessed of Maurice La Rue who had the punters eating out of the palm of his hand. Morrell had cleverly teamed him up with Steve Haggetty and they practiced their villainy on the makeshift but extremely effective pairing of Johnny Eagles and Tony St.Clair. In fact, the entire show was a good one. The main event saw Mick Mc.Manus facing Johnny Kwango and the main support featured Brian Maxine versus Jon Cortez. A good solid opener featured Lee Sharron versus Ray Glendenning.

I've had too much time on my hands during this third lockdown and have spent quite a few moments sitting quietly with my cup of tea thinking of all the matches I saw at Belle Vue with the Morrell/Beresford repertory company including Albert Wall, Gwynn Davies, Don Vines, Count Bartelli, Mal Kirk, kendo Nagasaki, Mike Marino, Steve Logan, Johnny Saint, Jim Breaks, Jack Robinson, Leon Arras, Bobby Graham, Steve Haggetty, Colin Joynson, Masambula and so many more.

Yes , the circus always stopped the wrestling with the exception of Christmas 1950.

On the 20th December Wrestling was held in "The New Exhibition Hall" and twice a week until February 21st when it went back to the Kings Hall.

I wonder what the capacity of the Exhibition hall would have been. 18 shows were put on there whilst the Kings Hall was used for the Circus. In 1951 Belle Vue did over 100 Wrestling Shows due to this.

I can no longer picture some parts of BelleVue. I do remember going into a Hall for Dancelands Disco , certainly big enough for some sort of Wrestling show.

Cumberland Suite rings a Bell and was going still in 1985.

By then I had no idea that Belle Vue was vanishing until I went to The ideal Homes Exhibition one day on the same site.

The Cumberland Suite may have been part of the Elizabethan Ballroom.

Maybe Graham Brook or Main Mask have some memories.

Maybe it was just a reference to kenton being Robinson for those in the know Ron, I don't know.

Maybe, lots of maybes, Bartelli only worked for Wryton because of his special relationship with that promotion.

The Belle Vue wrestling we remember was at the Kings Hall, which ended in 1981. But what do those in the know know about the Cumberland Suite, still going in 1983?

Every so often things pop up and it is just another snip of sense or sometimes no sense at all.

Gerry Hogarth Bills are quite rare When i find one I like to get them on hoping William R spots them. Gerry working for Dick Rogers.

We all know Bill Robinson was often Kenton when he started. But look at the sheer nonsense here where someone has billed him as though the Suburb in Manchester is called Robinson.

Robinson Manchester your aving a laugh.

And finally The Blood Tub. Can anyone shed any light on the African Inche. Good challenge for someone like Ost or Sax. Maybe MM has something.