ONE FOR RON?-HUSSEY/ROCCO SAME BILL?

Returning to the question of Paul Lincoln Promotions

1. Prior to the merger the company was Paul Lincoln Managements.

2. A new company was registered on 30th December, 1965, Paul Lincoln Promotions. Board members were the Dales plus, Paul Lincoln, Ray Hunter and Al Hayes.

3. The original Paul Lincoln Managements company was finally wound up on 8th March 1968.

4. Paul Lincoln Promotions (the new company) was wound up on 19th December, 1975.

Lincoln was his real surname, Paul was not his real first name.

James McDonald Lincoln.

As far as I can remember, the four wrestlers sold their stake in the Cromwellian Club in the late 1960's (it really was a swinging 60's hot spot and as that era started to draw to a close, the wrestlers moved on to other things).

We know Paul Lincoln Promotions existed at many venues 1966 to 1975.

There are business reasons why it existed.

But was Paul Lincoln personally involved? I say not at all.

The seventies bills are indistinguishable from Dale Martin ones.

The latest show I've found with Paul Lincoln promotions on it was February 4, 1975 from Guildford. However, they were running that town fairly regularly, so am hoping to come across more cards from that timeframe.

Although the thread has strayed into a second thread........What a Good thread.

Very helpful, Hack. Can you see an end date for Paul Lincoln Promotions?

I would guess that, when Dr Death came back in the spring of '69, it was for him to exit fully from Paul Lincoln Promotions, along with Hayes and Hunter, both of whom had disappeared from the ring by 1971.

Dr Death and Al Hayes both came back for a few guest appearances around 1974. I wonder if these tie in with the acquisition of The Cromwellian? I bet they do!

The original Paul Lincoln Company was Paul Lincoln Managements, this was the company taken over by Dale Martin at the end of 1965 but not formally dissolved until 8th March, 1968.

A new company was formed at the time of the merger, Paul Lincoln Promotions on 30th December 1965. Board members were two of the Abbey brothers, Al Hayes, Ray Hunter, and Paul Lincoln.

Directors of Dale Martin Directors listed on 27th May, 1966, were John G. Abbey, Leonard A. Abbey, C.Burkeman, Leslie L Martin, H.W.Abbey (Secretary).

As none of the Paul Lincoln board (other than the Abbeys) were listed as Directors of Dale Martins it seems that there were two separate companies, though in reality may well have been run as one.

Nice find, Ron!

We know Al Hayes wasn't there in 1974. And it reads as if Hunter and Lincoln had also gone off to Australia.

The one who was surely there and managing things was Bob.

Four wrestlers bought into the Cromwellian.

Lincoln , Hayes , Hunter and Bob (Anthony) Archer.

https://thecromwellian.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/history3cromwellroad/

Yes, Bognor certainly a Paul Lincoln venue. There were others.

The model seemed to be like Devereux Promotions; operating within Joint Promotions and using DM publicity and style and talent.

The Stage newspaper would just have churned out the statement on the posters that this was a Paul Lincoln promotion. Easier just to believe that Paul Lincoln existed as an individual and was involved.

Nevertheless, Ron's find about The Cromwellian is interesting as Paul Lincoln may have been a real person there.

Yes Main Mask, all of our options are on the table as possibles - as well as others we have not mentioned.

We just don't know.

Just one basic point: there was a merger or sell-out late 1965. That's what it was. We see all the evidence. If Paul Lincoln had carried on actively as a promoter, he would have been a rival. He was OUT. McManus took the lot and extracted mileage from the name and cinema venues for a few years.

Wrestling has a long tradition of forgiving and Dr Death wrestled in 1969 as box office and again, aged, around 1974. Nice gesture to the old man who may have needed the money at that point. Let's not forget he had a dark side...

Don't know if we can take this literally but at the Esplanade Theatre in Bognor Regis in summer 1972 according to "The Stage" newspaper , wrestling was presented by Paul Lincoln.

The venue was Monday nights.

Also in 1972 there was an article stating that Paul Lincoln runs "The Crowellian" in South Kensington and was managing Rickie Star not at wrestling but as a singing and dancing entertainer.

Dr Death just guested on a few shows in the spring of 69.

After a three-year absence.

I see it like this, Main Mask:

DM bought Paul Lincoln Promotions. They kept the name going for reasons I described above. In company takeovers, a brand can be absorbed and disappear; or kept alive as an independent entity. This is more normal and seems to be what happened.

For several years a Lincoln stalwart always appeared on those cinema shows: they knew the people, the logistics. Continuity.

And as I said, contracts - maybe including exclusivity - were in place. So the name PL had to be maintained.

I think that that McManus & Pallo cinema poster illustrates it all.

Interesting discussion because we just don't know for sure.

Ost says " Paul Lincoln was still promoting shows for Joints as late as 1975 " and this is where we disagree.

I agree that Paul Lincoln Promotions was promoting up till 1975.

But I see no evidence of the existence of Paul Lincoln. He was so media savvy in the early sixties - to go from that to The Invisible Man? From mid 1966 Paul Lincoln was, as MM says, OUT.

DMs took over Paul Lincoln Promotions/Management and just kept the name going as is the norm in a takeover.

I could be wrong, and we do know that Paul Lincoln had to keep a low profile. But having his name emblazoned on posters wouldn't have helped that cause.

I hope I'm wrong as this would unearth a rich vein of research.

But no facts indicate so far that I am wrong.

Paul Lincoln was still promoting shows for Joints as late as 1975, as mentioned in my earlier Paul Lincoln topic. I believe while he was in Australia that Ray Hunter took care of the promotional duties.

Yes, I think so.

Do we even know if Paul Lincoln was his real name? Sounds too snazzily perfect, early fifties style.

Loads we don't know and can only surmise.

Hunter's role, which we never discuss, must have been key. He provided continuity through the merger. And has always been acknowledged as partner.

As you say, he took the money and legged it. Did he have to leave or was it a choice? We know he also holed out on Tyneside.

There must be so much to uncover.

The way in may be through his real name ...

I beg to differ with you, dear Main Mask.

I think Dale Martin's took over Paul Lincoln Management but kept the brand name partly for continuity, partly for objectively making it look like there were different promoters and McManus etc wrestled across promotions. Perhaps also for other reasons like keeping the cinemas sweet or simply keeping cinema and other contracts valid.

I think McManus - also a skilled printer - just maintained the Lincoln style of Lincoln posters. But his was the unmistakable touch of having McManus & Pallo (never Pallo & McManus!) alongside, albeit in separate bouts.

I certainly don't think Paul Lincoln was sitting in Melbourne worrying about match-making or poster layout on the other side of the world. For one thing there was no internet; letters took weeks; phone calls were prohibitively expensive. He was OUT. But welcomed back as an ageing VIP veteran for those 1969 to 1973 bouts we occasionally mention.

Let's not forget, too: Lincoln's was the name but his partners were Hunter and, I think, Hayes, both active within DM 1966 to 1971. Let's not overlook their (management) roles.

It is absorbing because we can envisage these matches if both wrestlers were at their best. Feel certain Peter Stewart took a battering from Kirk this night almost half a century ago

Fascinating poster, looks like a Paul Lincoln bill. But no typical sign of any Lincoln stalwarts, now fior years since the merger. Usually they stuck one in, probably as a link with the venue management. McManus had probably by now decided that the Hunters and Fontaynes could be done without.

The promoters just couldn't resist making it look like it was McManus VERSUS Pallo. Never failed to fill the hall.

McManus just couldn't get enough of Eagles for a couple of years in spite of an embarrassing height difference.

Why is is so absorbing to study these posters .....?

A very northern bill for London, wouldn't look out of place for Norman Morrell. They must have brought a bus load down. Hussey against Pallo? Ugh!

Very interesting bill and all for less than £2

Another beautiful find, Ron, such symmetry on the IoW. Imagine the scene on the ferryboat ....

I seem to recall that JJH shrivelled a bit in 1971 so his bout with Kellett became feasible. He was never tall.

Rocco versus Barrie would have been an interesting match with their fathers at the top of the bill. Ironically Barrie disappeared after his father retired but Rocco had only just begun

I can't help thinking that Pallo v Hussey was a total mismatch as certainly Jim was much heavier and in my experience he was always matched against wrestlers of his own weight or higher. Surely things hadn't become so stretched in 1970 while the Golden Age was still active?

A December bill at Ventnor Winter Gardens on my native Isle of Wight was headed by Jim Hussey against Les Kellett. The opening contest was between Mark Rocco and Dave Barrie!

September 19th, 1970 – Norwich, England

Judo Al Hayes b Steve Logan

Brian Maxine b Mark Rocco

Bruno Elrington b Jim Hussey

Tony Costas b Steve Grey (1-0)

May 14th, 1971 – Stevenage, England (I should have a photo of this one somewhere)

Honey Boy Zimba b Johnny Yearsley (KO)

Ivan Penzecoff b Mark Rocco (1-0)

Johnny Saint d Sid Cooper (1-1)

Sean Regan b Jim Hussey (2-1)

Hussey/Glendenning was also the TV match from Leicester possibly one of these often repeated matches

Yep, it was a farewell tour for sure in 1971.

For what it's worth I've now found the actual programme:

4 December 1971 Hussey and Rocco appeared on the same TV bill from Leicester. Almost 1972 but not quite!

I will add that if you can find Jim Hussey in 1972 you will be doing well.

Thanks Main Mask! Garfield was in The Night & The City in 1949 which has provided my only pre-1950 glimpse of him so far.

Meanwhile back in Hastings, I rather thought thet The Husseys were doing the rounds that summer.

Here's what I have been able to find:

Yes and if Anglo saw them at Hastings and I have at least two , then i would have thought Two Dozen would be nearer the mark. It's a narrow window though , not sure what year Hussey packed in.

Did you notice Jim Moser was on both bills of mine.

Wonder if that was significant.

I'd happily jump in my time capsule to go and watch that Ganada bill! I'll see you all in the bar after!

I saw them in Hastings in 1971.