"But then Robinson had reached agreement with Jarvis Astaire that if the BBC did continue they would work in partnership, and this too may have disillusioned Lincoln."
Lincoln probably felt out on a limb and just ran out of puff.
Always worrying entering into a joint venture with a northerner, Hack.
Aaah, I see. There were no tv or big events per se for Lincoln in 1965. Just a broad non-Lincoln indepenant advance.
That's right Anglo Italian, but there is a but.
Paul Lincoln worked closely with Don Robinson and as the biggest independent promoter he would surely expect to be involved in any future BBC presentations.
But then Robinson had reached agreement with Jarvis Astaire that if the BBC did continue they would work in partnership, and this too may have disillusioned Lincoln.
If the BBC had continued with their coverage this would have changed the landscape for the major independent promoters such as Lincoln, Robinson and Taylor.
There must surely have been a sense of deflation for the independents when nothing materialised. Also, we need to bear in mind that to us wrestling fans Lincoln was the big name in opposition wrestling, but for Lincoln his main interest was music. We will never know what was going on in his other business interests or presonal life that led to him agreeing to the merger with Dale Martin.
As this was all before my time (and apologies if this has been asked before), but how much of this was televised?, did ITV make a big thing of it?, ring invasions, people issuing challenges on the microphone?
I mean, this sounds like the original blueprint of what US wrestling companies have done in recent-ish years, like WWF buying WCW, etc.
The televised ring invasion was well done. Al Hayes was polite and understated, explaining that these honest wrestlers were being denied TV exposure, that Mike Marino was a World Champion that was being ignored by ITV/Joint. Dale's officials looked suitably discomforted. It was all very British and nothing like you would expect from WWF etc. Did Joint follow up to full advantage? That's another matter.
What seemed so sudden to us fans must have taken months to negotiate. Having put on the second of their two independent shows early in 1965 Paul Lincoln must have been deflated when they chose not to follow them up. Until that point Lincoln had been making in roads into Dale Martin territory but now, with them having the exclusive TV contract and poaching both Lincoln newcomers and some of their overseas imports it might well have seemed he had nowhere to go other than look for a good deal.
The whole DM v PL feud remains fascinating for me due principally to how things changed at such a rapid pace:
Sept 1965 - all out war in Southend and elsewhere.
December 1965 - sudden rapprochement and merger/buyout.
January 1966 - exciting in-ring feud with flyers and tv coverage and magnificent ring invasion and challenge.
February 1966 - a handful of such challenge bills but it was all largely a wet squib
June 1966 - Dr Death is the first masked wrestler at the Albert Hall (but still not on tv.)
Over the following four years, some Lincoln stalwarts fizzle away - Stedman, Fontayne, Verdu, Kendo, Rebel Ray, the Wild Man from Borneo - whilst others blend into DM-world and claim titles and wide tv exposure - Cortez, Marino, Boscik.
1972 - Dr Death returns as Special Guest Villain on Devereaux bills; seemingly allowed by DM and JP, without actually being embraced.
The above is what we can see.
As usual, it's what we cannot see and do not know, the real dealings involved, that now look like being lost to the ages.
Good point I hadn't considered.
"But then Robinson had reached agreement with Jarvis Astaire that if the BBC did continue they would work in partnership, and this too may have disillusioned Lincoln."
Lincoln probably felt out on a limb and just ran out of puff.
Always worrying entering into a joint venture with a northerner, Hack.
Anglo Italian
15h
Replying to
Hack
Aaah, I see. There were no tv or big events per se for Lincoln in 1965. Just a broad non-Lincoln indepenant advance.
That's right Anglo Italian, but there is a but.
Paul Lincoln worked closely with Don Robinson and as the biggest independent promoter he would surely expect to be involved in any future BBC presentations.
But then Robinson had reached agreement with Jarvis Astaire that if the BBC did continue they would work in partnership, and this too may have disillusioned Lincoln.
Anglo Italian:
"Please remind everybody else what you are referring to."
As you know Anglo Italian the BBC had put out a wrestling show in January 1965
and again in May, 1965
If the BBC had continued with their coverage this would have changed the landscape for the major independent promoters such as Lincoln, Robinson and Taylor.
There must surely have been a sense of deflation for the independents when nothing materialised. Also, we need to bear in mind that to us wrestling fans Lincoln was the big name in opposition wrestling, but for Lincoln his main interest was music. We will never know what was going on in his other business interests or presonal life that led to him agreeing to the merger with Dale Martin.
Hi Hack
Reply function not working so replying to you here.
"What seemed so sudden to us fans must have taken months to negotiate."
I disagree, I think it was a sudden fudge deal in November. The way many wars end.
"Having put on the second of their two independent shows early in 1965 ..."
Please remind everybody else what you are referring to. 🙄
As this was all before my time (and apologies if this has been asked before), but how much of this was televised?, did ITV make a big thing of it?, ring invasions, people issuing challenges on the microphone?
I mean, this sounds like the original blueprint of what US wrestling companies have done in recent-ish years, like WWF buying WCW, etc.
What seemed so sudden to us fans must have taken months to negotiate. Having put on the second of their two independent shows early in 1965 Paul Lincoln must have been deflated when they chose not to follow them up. Until that point Lincoln had been making in roads into Dale Martin territory but now, with them having the exclusive TV contract and poaching both Lincoln newcomers and some of their overseas imports it might well have seemed he had nowhere to go other than look for a good deal.
The whole DM v PL feud remains fascinating for me due principally to how things changed at such a rapid pace:
Sept 1965 - all out war in Southend and elsewhere.
December 1965 - sudden rapprochement and merger/buyout.
January 1966 - exciting in-ring feud with flyers and tv coverage and magnificent ring invasion and challenge.
February 1966 - a handful of such challenge bills but it was all largely a wet squib
June 1966 - Dr Death is the first masked wrestler at the Albert Hall (but still not on tv.)
Over the following four years, some Lincoln stalwarts fizzle away - Stedman, Fontayne, Verdu, Kendo, Rebel Ray, the Wild Man from Borneo - whilst others blend into DM-world and claim titles and wide tv exposure - Cortez, Marino, Boscik.
1972 - Dr Death returns as Special Guest Villain on Devereaux bills; seemingly allowed by DM and JP, without actually being embraced.
The above is what we can see.
As usual, it's what we cannot see and do not know, the real dealings involved, that now look like being lost to the ages.
“Wrestling’s a funny old game”.
John Shelvey said, "Say no more."
But Wrestling Heritage did ....