None of this is important of course. He can be added if it makes anyone or everyone happy. Being brought up in a good socialist household I was taught to respect the Royal family. I still insist on watching the Queen, much to the amusement of the fancier and more upmarket Mrs Hack. My problem with this is what about Bessie Braddock, Max Bygraves and other famous folk that went to the wrestling? I also have the feeling the good old Duke turned up because he was receiving a cheque for his charities on those occasions. A nifty bit of foootwork by Dale Martin getting him to come along. Let's face it. It would have taken a cheque to get me to go to a Dale Martin show.
It wasn't appropriate to make any negative comment at the time of the Duke's death.
However, in fairness we should record what great disappointment we had when we courted HRH for some more involvement 15 years ago, at the height of Wrestling Heritage's boom.
We wrote and made an expansive case, explaining how many thousands of citizens remain either totally (like us) or mildly captivated by the nostalgia of sixties wrestling. Etcetera.
We were fobbed off with a standard reply from a secretary with a fancy name, who presumably thought we'd be impressed by the automated prose and thick paper. Her letter failed to acknowledge and snubbed the interest of thousands. Wrestling Heritage survived an thrived without his involvement. But he missed a trick; he could have hob-nobbed it with us.
Probably just another case of a fancy-named but wholly ignorant whippersnapper looking down her ski-slope nose and dismissively deciding "Don't these stupid old men know it was all fixed? I've seen Hulk Hogan."
Whether our letter reached HRH's awareness is doubtful. The exchange alienated us at a time when the Royal Family needed fans. The judgment of the staff around them is clearly questionable,.
The Duke of Kent seems a very focused man in spite of outward frailties.Does anyone feel it would be worth contacting him?
The 1920s will remain in history as the most glorious decade of British amateur wrestling in the twentieth century. During that time the focus of British wrestling fans switched from the pro wrestling to the amateurs, because the former lost its credibility right before the outbreak of the World War 1 and the latter instead after the 1908 London Olympiad which was triumphed by the local wrestlers gained its popularity among the fans and gave them reason to be proud of their wrestlers and hope to witness the true genuine sport of wrestling which they loved so much. It was a time when all current international competitions were already established (the Euros, and the Olympics which during that time were also considered as the Worlds) and among the most prestigious were the challenge matches between the national teams. It was a matter of national honor and prestige to win in those contests. One such match was held at London’s Stadium Club in January 1924. In attendance of Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester (1900-1974), Lord Desborough and the French Ambassador Team Great Britain defeated their “eternal rivals” Team France in the most dramatic manner, 4 victories to 3.
Meanwhile in East Lancashire the Lancashire County Amateur Wrestling Association (LCAWA) an affiliate member of the National Amateur Wrestling Association of Great Britain (NAWA) was established in October 1923. Under the guidance of W.E. Dowling (1899-1973), the LCAWA secretary, who himself was a famous light-heavyweight amateur wrestler of championship caliber and a National Team member, the LCAWA gave birth to a great number of catch-as-catch-can wrestlers of international fame; it was a true revival of Lancashire Catch Wrestling, the New Golden Age of Catch. The best among the LCAWA champions, natives of Oldham, Bolton and Wigan areas, the holders of the challenge gold and silver belts also were the British Amateur Wrestling Champions. The greatest of them was a 9st champion called Joe Reid of Leigh, Lancs, a collier by trade, who held 6 British titles for 5 consecutive years between 1930 and 1935 inclusively, and represented Team Great Britain at the 1932 Olympic Games in Los Angeles, USA. Among other stars of Reid’s generation were such great champions as Harry Pennington and Tom Owen both of Leigh, Lancs and Jimmy Crompton, Sonny Darby, Johnny Nelson, Sgt Ted Weakes and the last heavyweight champion wrestler of Lancashire George Gregory all five of Bolton, Lancs.
The promoters did a fair job in attracting HRH to two shows. I won’t go overboard with praise because our wrestling was the biggest indoor spectator sport in the land and it would have been odd for royalty not to be involved. The Queen was a fan.
There the praise stops.
When you see all the organisations of which HRH was patron, you are left wondering why his involvement was aborted at two one-off shows.
Where was the Duke of Edinburgh perpetual trophy? To be fought for annually with ongoing press coverage. Why did the RAH trophy not extend its name to include this important royal patronage?
Where were the DoE medallions for those who wrestled in front of him? To be part of those wrestlers’ presentations.
Where were the hundreds of photos of HRH with each wrestler? We are left with scraps and the main photo even with deleted background.
Where was any follow-up? HRH’s comments, his reaction during the show, an interview, or at least each wrestler stating what he had said to them.
Where was any promotional guile in creating a hook to maintain the royal patronage: an invitation to his children to come wrestling; the naming of other events with royal words?
True, DoK attended ten years later, but it was seemingly an entrapment through obligation in the Crabtree era, and we can imagine the Crabtree-style approach had originally been for a DoE hat-trick, and duly declined. Maybe it read something like: “We request Prince Philips presence .....” (sic)
I can’t help but repeat my impression above: 1968, particularly, was jobs for the boys. McManus, Logan, Hayes and Pallo to get the handshakes. Cronyism. Possibly indicative of corrosive lobbying within the system ....
The fact that he did not stay for the whole show in 1968 reflects the response of the general population-high levels of interest in 1963 starting to be less interested by 1968
Thanks. What you say makes sense Anglo. The Duke did appear to enjoy himself though he didn't go along because he liked wrestling, he went because it was a charity show for one of his supported charities. That's not saying he didn't like wrestling.
I checked the programme and yes Szakacs-Da Silva is listed as taking place first. Seeing as there's a photo of him laughing at Pallo's antics then he did indeed stay for the whole show.
I think they had to put Da Silva on first as HRH was booked to present the trophy. And to fit in with the tv schedule. The fear must have been that he didn't enjoy himself and would have left before the end or the other bouts.
But he hung on in there,
I know he didn't see the entire 1968 show, though. No photo of him presenting the Capital Cities tropy to Judo Al Hayes.
None of this is important of course. He can be added if it makes anyone or everyone happy. Being brought up in a good socialist household I was taught to respect the Royal family. I still insist on watching the Queen, much to the amusement of the fancier and more upmarket Mrs Hack. My problem with this is what about Bessie Braddock, Max Bygraves and other famous folk that went to the wrestling? I also have the feeling the good old Duke turned up because he was receiving a cheque for his charities on those occasions. A nifty bit of foootwork by Dale Martin getting him to come along. Let's face it. It would have taken a cheque to get me to go to a Dale Martin show.
Do you think he should Peter?
Does Prince Phillip qualify for the Final Count Section?
At eighty six he is reducing his public engagements and probably would not respond
It wasn't appropriate to make any negative comment at the time of the Duke's death.
However, in fairness we should record what great disappointment we had when we courted HRH for some more involvement 15 years ago, at the height of Wrestling Heritage's boom.
We wrote and made an expansive case, explaining how many thousands of citizens remain either totally (like us) or mildly captivated by the nostalgia of sixties wrestling. Etcetera.
We were fobbed off with a standard reply from a secretary with a fancy name, who presumably thought we'd be impressed by the automated prose and thick paper. Her letter failed to acknowledge and snubbed the interest of thousands. Wrestling Heritage survived an thrived without his involvement. But he missed a trick; he could have hob-nobbed it with us.
Probably just another case of a fancy-named but wholly ignorant whippersnapper looking down her ski-slope nose and dismissively deciding "Don't these stupid old men know it was all fixed? I've seen Hulk Hogan."
Whether our letter reached HRH's awareness is doubtful. The exchange alienated us at a time when the Royal Family needed fans. The judgment of the staff around them is clearly questionable,.
The Duke of Kent seems a very focused man in spite of outward frailties.Does anyone feel it would be worth contacting him?
The late Duke of Gloucester forerunner of Edinburgh and Kent attending wrestling
The Golden Age of British Amateur Wrestling.
The 1920s will remain in history as the most glorious decade of British amateur wrestling in the twentieth century. During that time the focus of British wrestling fans switched from the pro wrestling to the amateurs, because the former lost its credibility right before the outbreak of the World War 1 and the latter instead after the 1908 London Olympiad which was triumphed by the local wrestlers gained its popularity among the fans and gave them reason to be proud of their wrestlers and hope to witness the true genuine sport of wrestling which they loved so much. It was a time when all current international competitions were already established (the Euros, and the Olympics which during that time were also considered as the Worlds) and among the most prestigious were the challenge matches between the national teams. It was a matter of national honor and prestige to win in those contests. One such match was held at London’s Stadium Club in January 1924. In attendance of Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester (1900-1974), Lord Desborough and the French Ambassador Team Great Britain defeated their “eternal rivals” Team France in the most dramatic manner, 4 victories to 3.
Meanwhile in East Lancashire the Lancashire County Amateur Wrestling Association (LCAWA) an affiliate member of the National Amateur Wrestling Association of Great Britain (NAWA) was established in October 1923. Under the guidance of W.E. Dowling (1899-1973), the LCAWA secretary, who himself was a famous light-heavyweight amateur wrestler of championship caliber and a National Team member, the LCAWA gave birth to a great number of catch-as-catch-can wrestlers of international fame; it was a true revival of Lancashire Catch Wrestling, the New Golden Age of Catch. The best among the LCAWA champions, natives of Oldham, Bolton and Wigan areas, the holders of the challenge gold and silver belts also were the British Amateur Wrestling Champions. The greatest of them was a 9st champion called Joe Reid of Leigh, Lancs, a collier by trade, who held 6 British titles for 5 consecutive years between 1930 and 1935 inclusively, and represented Team Great Britain at the 1932 Olympic Games in Los Angeles, USA. Among other stars of Reid’s generation were such great champions as Harry Pennington and Tom Owen both of Leigh, Lancs and Jimmy Crompton, Sonny Darby, Johnny Nelson, Sgt Ted Weakes and the last heavyweight champion wrestler of Lancashire George Gregory all five of Bolton, Lancs.
Funny comment about fighting outside the pubs bkendo. As for Mick he's nothing to complain about. Prince Phil said much worse.
I had the distinction of fighting in front of both the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York......and quite a few other Salford pubs.
0n HRH Philip I thought he was a good bloke and there is a Salford Connection which I'm sure will be revealed in later biographies.
incidentally Mick claimed Prince Philip called him a bloody midget.
This broadcast was restricted to the second half but still an absolutely prime time slot.
Although i'm no fan of the the Royals here's a wee something to accompany this topic.
1968
A splendid appraisal Anglo Italian.
The promoters did a fair job in attracting HRH to two shows. I won’t go overboard with praise because our wrestling was the biggest indoor spectator sport in the land and it would have been odd for royalty not to be involved. The Queen was a fan.
There the praise stops.
When you see all the organisations of which HRH was patron, you are left wondering why his involvement was aborted at two one-off shows.
Where was the Duke of Edinburgh perpetual trophy? To be fought for annually with ongoing press coverage. Why did the RAH trophy not extend its name to include this important royal patronage?
Where were the DoE medallions for those who wrestled in front of him? To be part of those wrestlers’ presentations.
Where were the hundreds of photos of HRH with each wrestler? We are left with scraps and the main photo even with deleted background.
Where was any follow-up? HRH’s comments, his reaction during the show, an interview, or at least each wrestler stating what he had said to them.
Where was any promotional guile in creating a hook to maintain the royal patronage: an invitation to his children to come wrestling; the naming of other events with royal words?
True, DoK attended ten years later, but it was seemingly an entrapment through obligation in the Crabtree era, and we can imagine the Crabtree-style approach had originally been for a DoE hat-trick, and duly declined. Maybe it read something like: “We request Prince Philips presence .....” (sic)
I can’t help but repeat my impression above: 1968, particularly, was jobs for the boys. McManus, Logan, Hayes and Pallo to get the handshakes. Cronyism. Possibly indicative of corrosive lobbying within the system ....
The funeral was very tasteful, carried out with great pomp and yet dignity. The Americans (and others) would love to have a King and or Queen.
The fact that he did not stay for the whole show in 1968 reflects the response of the general population-high levels of interest in 1963 starting to be less interested by 1968
Thanks. What you say makes sense Anglo. The Duke did appear to enjoy himself though he didn't go along because he liked wrestling, he went because it was a charity show for one of his supported charities. That's not saying he didn't like wrestling.
Yes, the TV featured Tibor v Da Silva, then McManus v Caulder.
I would rather they had showed The Dazzler v Iffland and Robinson v Campbell.
I checked the programme and yes Szakacs-Da Silva is listed as taking place first. Seeing as there's a photo of him laughing at Pallo's antics then he did indeed stay for the whole show.
I think they had to put Da Silva on first as HRH was booked to present the trophy. And to fit in with the tv schedule. The fear must have been that he didn't enjoy himself and would have left before the end or the other bouts.
But he hung on in there,
I know he didn't see the entire 1968 show, though. No photo of him presenting the Capital Cities tropy to Judo Al Hayes.
Isn’t Dazzler Joe Cornelius still with us?