Ron, thanks, that I didn't know. When I lived in England, it was early 2000s in Cheam-Sutton area, it's Greater London, 30min by train from Victoria Station, I usually had black pudding for breakfast, it actually always was part of my full English breakfast. Now I am thinking about how can I get one of those very special "Black Puddings of Bury".
Hack, what would be the best award for me for my struggle (worstelen in Dutch/Flemish), sure - The Lancashire Clogs, iron studded, spiked sole, this photo was taken in Tottington, Bury, Lancs, The Land of Adam Ridings.
And yes you are right about the "romanticised view of Britain, especially Lancashire, that you seem to have". Like I said once as soon as I realized that I am not going to get answers to my questions in the old newspapers pro wrestling matches reports, I changed my strategy, and started studying the folklore, traditions and first of all the history of East Lancashire. There's no history of Lancashire catch wrestling outside the area of East Lancashire, and saying that I mean History of Catch perfectly reflects or I can even say equals to the History of Salford and Blackburn Hundreds of Lancashire County. It was a traditional style of wrestling culturally unique to the residents of that region.
Ruslan never fails to educate us. He has brought a great deal to Heritage and taught us so much about the origins of our sport - sometimes his revelations make my brain hurt trying to work it all out. So thank you Ruslan. But then there is this romanticised view of Britain, especially Lancashire, that you seem to have.
Ron is right about the accents. In 1960s Leyland a source of amusement was the accent of those brought in to a new housing estate from Wigan who talked funny and waited for buzzes. At primary school a teacher asked everyone to say a word, I can't remember what. Everyone except two children pronounced the word the same way. The two odd ones out had parents from Preston. Preston was five miles north across the River Ribble. We were told people north of the Ribble spoke this word differently.
Rather glowing review of the reign of Queen Elizabeth1 in this article considering her final decade was ravaged by famine and falling living standards but fascinating research as always
Peter, yes the Elizabethan England left a very multi-faceted impact on English history, lots of pluses and enough of minuses. I might not be quite right, and of course Ron can correct me but it appears to me that its since that time England became a country of what we would nowadays call - imperial ambitions (Rule Britannia, Rule the waves), Francis Drake and etc era, and etc. And thanks again for your kind words, my appreciation.
Walter Armstrong, was a wrestler himself (back-holder), top British wrestling historian in the 1800s, and at some point chairman of the Cumberland and Westmorland Wrestling Assn. He was an advocate of the catch-hold style of wrestling. It was catch hold of the any part of the body above the waist, first down to lose, standing wrestling, quick flying falls only. Sometimes they called it catch-as-catch-can, but again there were NO holds below the waist, nor it allowed wrestling on the ground. Let him speak for himself. His summary was - decidedly un-English.
Without entering into any lengthened details, it should be observed that, ever since its institution, the modes of wrestling have been as various as they are at this time in England, America, and the Colonies. Back-hold wrestling still hold sits own in Cumberland and Westmorland, and remains as popular as it was over a century ago. In Lancashire and the north of Ireland, the catch-hold or catch-as-catch-can system still finds favour ; and in Devon and Cornwall, wrestling in canvas jackets continues to be the popular style, with certain modifications relative to kicking, formerly practised more especially by the Devonian exponents of the art. In the United States and Australia, the catch-hold system, which often includes ground wrestling, is the most fashionable; while in France, Germany, Switzerland, and Japan, a sort of catch-hold style has been adopted, subject to certain restrictions, to be hereafter commented upon. Of all known methods, however, the arms round the body, as practised in Cumberland and Westmorland and the Border counties, is, we consider, the best calculated to produce a display of dexterity and science.
Ground wrestling, however, which means, if it means anything, simply a kind of dog-fight on the ground, is utterly opposed to our notions of sport, and can never find favour in this country ; indeed, Lancashire is the only county in England where it is practiced.
In 1871, the late Mr. J. G. Chambers, of aquatic and pedestrian celebrity, and some time editor of Land and Water, endeavoured to introduce and promote a new system of wrestling at the Lillie Bridge Grounds, West Brompton, which he denominated, "The Catch-as-catchcan Style; first down to lose." Unfortunately, the new idea met with little support at the time, and a few years afterwards Mr. Chambers was induced to adopt the objectionable fashion of allowing the competitors to wrestle on all-fours on the ground. This new departure was the forerunner of the total abolition of the sport at that athletic resort, and within a short period the wrestling, as an item in the programme there, was entirely wiped out.
Various other promoters of this exercise, notably Mr. J.Wannop, of New Cross, have attempted to bring the new system prominently before the public, with the view of amalgamating the three English styles, viz. the Cumberland and Westmorland, Cornwall and Devon, and Lancashire.
Very little success, however, has attended their efforts, and it was thought by many well-wishers and patrons of the sport that the catch-hold idea would have to be abandoned. The sudden development, however, of the Cumberland and Westmorland Amateur Wrestling Society, brought the new style again prominently to the front, and special prizes were
Wrestling on the " first down to lose " principle was new to many of the spectators, but it was generally approved of as a great step in advance of the loose-hold system, which includes struggling on the ground and sundry objection able tactics, such as catching hold of the legs, twisting arms, dislocating fingers, and other items of attack and defence peculiar to Lancashire wrestling.
Q. Should ground wrestling be abolished ?
A. Ground wrestling, in the opinion of most people qualified to discuss the subject, ought never to have been introduced into this country, as it is decidedly un-English, and calculated to bring an ancient pastime into disrepute. There can be no objection to the catch-hold system," first down to lose " the fall, to catch hold above the waist without being restricted to any particular grip. In a " first down to lose " contest, the referee has not the same difficulty in giving a decision which he must experience in all " three point" matches.
Unquestionably, if an amalgamated style of wrestling were introduced throughout the country, the ancient science of wrestling would assume its proper position among the numerous athletic exercises for which this land of vigorous and manly outdoor sports is so justly famous.
Yes we have talked about it many times Ruslan. Those towns at the bottom of the Pennine chain of hills had a perfect damp sort of atmosphere for spinning and weaving , and each town has a slightly different accent. I don't know if you could find such a variation of accent like this anywhere else in the country.
Greater Manchester in years gone by was a Cotton Metropolis and you have made that great connection with Flemish weavers bringing their customs with them.
A revelation that catch wrestling did not start in Wigan. I think we owe that to you Ruslan.
Dear Ron, yes in fact we did. A decade of research (2005-2016) and I hit the wall, it was early 2017 when I got an "awakening call" and we first talked about " up and down fighting background of catch". I collected "wrestling material" from every corner of England, info about all historical styles there were in existence, and it became obvious to me...that those two main features of Lancashire catch wrestling id est "catch hold of any part of the body above and under the waist and ground wrestling" cannot be found anywhere else in England except for that particular region - East Lancashire (historically Salford and Blackburn Hundreds of Lancashire County). After I realized that...I had to start studying the history of County Palatinate.
They do say they export round the Globe.
http://www.buryblackpuddings.co.uk/about-us/
More famous than Clogs Ruslan , Bury is world famous for Black Puddings.
I will bet Adam Ridings had more than a few.
Hack, what would be the best award for me for my struggle (worstelen in Dutch/Flemish), sure - The Lancashire Clogs, iron studded, spiked sole, this photo was taken in Tottington, Bury, Lancs, The Land of Adam Ridings.
The Golden Clog Holder - Russian Concussion.
You are our honorary Lancastrian Ruslan
Dear Hack, thanks for your kindness, appreciate.
And yes you are right about the "romanticised view of Britain, especially Lancashire, that you seem to have". Like I said once as soon as I realized that I am not going to get answers to my questions in the old newspapers pro wrestling matches reports, I changed my strategy, and started studying the folklore, traditions and first of all the history of East Lancashire. There's no history of Lancashire catch wrestling outside the area of East Lancashire, and saying that I mean History of Catch perfectly reflects or I can even say equals to the History of Salford and Blackburn Hundreds of Lancashire County. It was a traditional style of wrestling culturally unique to the residents of that region.
Ruslan never fails to educate us. He has brought a great deal to Heritage and taught us so much about the origins of our sport - sometimes his revelations make my brain hurt trying to work it all out. So thank you Ruslan. But then there is this romanticised view of Britain, especially Lancashire, that you seem to have.
Ron is right about the accents. In 1960s Leyland a source of amusement was the accent of those brought in to a new housing estate from Wigan who talked funny and waited for buzzes. At primary school a teacher asked everyone to say a word, I can't remember what. Everyone except two children pronounced the word the same way. The two odd ones out had parents from Preston. Preston was five miles north across the River Ribble. We were told people north of the Ribble spoke this word differently.
Another interesting piece from Ruslan today in The Roots of Modern Wrestling
The mention of Walter Armstrong also reminds me of a wrestling blog I've mentioned before and is worth a look
Grappling With History
It's not been updated since April but I think this is a temporary relapse whilst owner Sarah concentrates on her studies.
The Imperial ambitions probably began with the Crusades and the Hundred Years War
Rather glowing review of the reign of Queen Elizabeth1 in this article considering her final decade was ravaged by famine and falling living standards but fascinating research as always
Walter Armstrong, was a wrestler himself (back-holder), top British wrestling historian in the 1800s, and at some point chairman of the Cumberland and Westmorland Wrestling Assn. He was an advocate of the catch-hold style of wrestling. It was catch hold of the any part of the body above the waist, first down to lose, standing wrestling, quick flying falls only. Sometimes they called it catch-as-catch-can, but again there were NO holds below the waist, nor it allowed wrestling on the ground. Let him speak for himself. His summary was - decidedly un-English.
Without entering into any lengthened details, it should be observed that, ever since its institution, the modes of wrestling have been as various as they are at this time in England, America, and the Colonies. Back-hold wrestling still hold sits own in Cumberland and Westmorland, and remains as popular as it was over a century ago. In Lancashire and the north of Ireland, the catch-hold or catch-as-catch-can system still finds favour ; and in Devon and Cornwall, wrestling in canvas jackets continues to be the popular style, with certain modifications relative to kicking, formerly practised more especially by the Devonian exponents of the art. In the United States and Australia, the catch-hold system, which often includes ground wrestling, is the most fashionable; while in France, Germany, Switzerland, and Japan, a sort of catch-hold style has been adopted, subject to certain restrictions, to be hereafter commented upon. Of all known methods, however, the arms round the body, as practised in Cumberland and Westmorland and the Border counties, is, we consider, the best calculated to produce a display of dexterity and science.
Ground wrestling, however, which means, if it means anything, simply a kind of dog-fight on the ground, is utterly opposed to our notions of sport, and can never find favour in this country ; indeed, Lancashire is the only county in England where it is practiced.
In 1871, the late Mr. J. G. Chambers, of aquatic and pedestrian celebrity, and some time editor of Land and Water, endeavoured to introduce and promote a new system of wrestling at the Lillie Bridge Grounds, West Brompton, which he denominated, "The Catch-as-catchcan Style; first down to lose." Unfortunately, the new idea met with little support at the time, and a few years afterwards Mr. Chambers was induced to adopt the objectionable fashion of allowing the competitors to wrestle on all-fours on the ground. This new departure was the forerunner of the total abolition of the sport at that athletic resort, and within a short period the wrestling, as an item in the programme there, was entirely wiped out.
Various other promoters of this exercise, notably Mr. J.Wannop, of New Cross, have attempted to bring the new system prominently before the public, with the view of amalgamating the three English styles, viz. the Cumberland and Westmorland, Cornwall and Devon, and Lancashire.
Very little success, however, has attended their efforts, and it was thought by many well-wishers and patrons of the sport that the catch-hold idea would have to be abandoned. The sudden development, however, of the Cumberland and Westmorland Amateur Wrestling Society, brought the new style again prominently to the front, and special prizes were
Wrestling on the " first down to lose " principle was new to many of the spectators, but it was generally approved of as a great step in advance of the loose-hold system, which includes struggling on the ground and sundry objection able tactics, such as catching hold of the legs, twisting arms, dislocating fingers, and other items of attack and defence peculiar to Lancashire wrestling.
Q. Should ground wrestling be abolished ?
A. Ground wrestling, in the opinion of most people qualified to discuss the subject, ought never to have been introduced into this country, as it is decidedly un-English, and calculated to bring an ancient pastime into disrepute. There can be no objection to the catch-hold system," first down to lose " the fall, to catch hold above the waist without being restricted to any particular grip. In a " first down to lose " contest, the referee has not the same difficulty in giving a decision which he must experience in all " three point" matches.
Unquestionably, if an amalgamated style of wrestling were introduced throughout the country, the ancient science of wrestling would assume its proper position among the numerous athletic exercises for which this land of vigorous and manly outdoor sports is so justly famous.
Yes we have talked about it many times Ruslan. Those towns at the bottom of the Pennine chain of hills had a perfect damp sort of atmosphere for spinning and weaving , and each town has a slightly different accent. I don't know if you could find such a variation of accent like this anywhere else in the country.
Greater Manchester in years gone by was a Cotton Metropolis and you have made that great connection with Flemish weavers bringing their customs with them.
A revelation that catch wrestling did not start in Wigan. I think we owe that to you Ruslan.