I only remember the welter and heavy titles being in use in my time. Ray Fury was rumoured to have the light heavy, but we never saw him. I was at Northampton 1970 - 1974. McManus and Hayes were people i remember billed as such.
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
I saw Ed Bright billed as Southern Area champ early 1950s, pre Joint Promotions. I think only Mancelli was billed as Joint champ in the 1950s. This was Dale Martin land and I'd be very surprised if they spent money on any regional belts
in the early 1950s Dale Martin were running their own British titles not only regionals. Let's not forget the Arena Gold Belts, those were symbollic of the British Titles under DM before they decided to join JP. I know McManus held one such gold belt. I never seen a pic though. But it appeared in many newspapers, the info about it I mean. Did anyone see such belt pic of McManus it would be a photo from the early 50s, 1953-54 maybe?!
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
As you can see from these programmes, when they did have a chance to feature a picture of the title, they never did. Which leads me to believe there wasn't one.
Recently I was told that when Johnny Kincaid was a champion he actually had a physical championship belt symbolic of the Southern Area Hwt Title? Does anyone remember seeing it?
surprised there's no images of Mancelli with his belt, and he sure did have a belt, I recall seeing countless number of references to it in contemporary newspapers bills (articles) which spoke of Southern Area Hwt Championship.
Tony Mancelli would have been heavyweight champ until 1965, so him.
Great handbill for the ko tourney, thanks. Just goes to emphasise that Ray must have invested in his own belt because Harry Kendall was in the field and would have far and away been the most skilful wrestler.
I was influenced by all titles, 100%. Even Wayne Bridges (Kent) and Roy Bull Davis (Western Area). Certainly. And let's not forget the Jewish champions - Micky Gold was one. I don't recall seeing a CofE title...
I do think that in the sixties the RAH Trophy was a very fair equivalent to soccer's FA Cup. The FA Cup seemed to stay important until the nineties, but the RAH Trophy was snuffed out for some unfathomable reason in 1972. Also the winner of the trophy went on to face an important opponent at the end of season spectacular, for example that's how Bruno got to face Jean Ferre. I loved all that structure, it allowed me to validate my interest in a way that made me feel not too daft. But all the while I was trying to work out just who became even regional title holders and why, just like I/we are still doing today. Just that years ago, I was probably way off target.
I know you are looking for precision, Ruslan. The definition of southern England being south of the Thames falls down when you see Rushden's Doug Joyce in the tourney. Rushden's nearly a hundred miles north of the Thames.
I searched the old forum for previous discussion of this topic but couldn't find anything. Strange, as we discussed them at length years ago. Anyway, the recent talk of belts got me thinking!
Forum members have been pretty dismissive of regional title claims in the past. The fact that Jim Hussey had been Northern Heavyweight Champion meant nothing to me. Alan Wood was one of my favourite welterweights, but I didn't care whether he was Northern Area Champion or not.
We have noted that the British titles were mainly held by northern wrestlers. I remember saying that up north we didn't care about regional champions because we had the national ones.
So, my question is aimed at members from Dale Martin land.
As you rarely got your hands on a British title did the regional titles have more significance to you?
After all, we have seen earlier in this topic that the heavyweight title did have some lineage?
Another specific question. Which would you say was more prestigious, winning the Southern Area Heavyweight Belt or winning the Royal Albert Hall Heavyweight Tournament?
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Hi Anglo. Wasn't Ernie Riley British Lightheavyweight Champion in 1962?
what is amazing is that title existed for at least 20 years and there's no a single photo of any champion with the belt emblematic of that title, reminds me situation with mythical Wryton Belt.
I think the Ray Fury angle is interesting. An undercarder who was the only holder of the SELHC for a decade or so, with no predecessor and no successor. Isn't this a glaring sign that he bought himself a belt and said to the promoter: "Now you can make a lowly undercarder like me top-of-the-bill somewhere once or twice a month in a title bout. I'll bring me belt."
Similar signs with Billy Joyce on wiki, just loaning his belt out to a series of buddies (Davies, Campbell, Portz, Mitchell) for a few days at a time. They could then tell their mums that they were BHCs.
In the Southern England Heavyweight lineage, Tony Charles's name is dropped into every list as garnish, but without any detail whatsoever. I researched this many mons ago, but can't remember my findings. Was he just in that 1967 RAH tourney? Did he ever actually own the title? Certainly not in 1972, as one list claims.
Thanks. Would love to see the belt if you can find. Obviously I need to clear up the Ray Fury situation, unless he won two tournaments at Maidstone, which I think is unlikely.
Brilliant thanks so much for sharing, much appreciated. I will have to dig deeper about the Southern Area Belt. I sure will be back on this subject. But yeah there was a belt, another question if Hayes ever held it, or Anglo-Italian retired it with the original title.
Here's what I have for the Southern Area titles. I haven't researched the South Eastern title yet (although it being a Paul Lincoln title it would be hard to do as titles seemed to come and go on a whim there):This is my most recent information. The Southern Area Heavyweight is quite an interesting curio as it starts in the 30's, goes through Dale Martin and ends up in the independents in the 80's. Lots of gaps in the listings for all these titles as they were often forgotten about. But i'm hooping to fill in at least some of the gaps.
Southern Area Heavyweight Title
Tiger Ted Baxter >6/1935
…
Tony Mancelli >9/1949
Dropkick Johnny Peters 1950s?
(Still champion on independents 2/1962)
Tony Mancelli 1950s-1965
Retires undefeated
VACANT
Joe Cornelius 11/11/1965 Walthamstow
Wins a KO tournament. Retires undefeated 1967
VACANT
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
(Still champion in 4/1971)
Bruno Elrington 10/1/1972 Portsmouth
…
Tony Charles
Bruno Elrington
Steve Veidor >2/1976
(Still/again champ in 11/1976)
…
Bill Bromley
Neil Sands >11/1978 Croydon
Johnny Kincaid 15/3/1980 Southampton
…
Alan J Batt 1980s
…
Crusher? Mason
Steve Veidor 4/Nov/1983 Brighton
…
Neil Sands 1987
(May have been the reign where Sands defeated Bill Bromley)
…
John Wilson >10/1990
Southern Area Light Heavyweight Title
Ray Fury 28/9/1962 Maidstone
Wins tournament (listed for tournament, results unknown)
Still/again champion in 1965?-1967, 1/1970
Southern Area Middleweight Title
Al Jackson 12/1952
…
Percy Kid Pittman 1955
…
Joe Murphy 1965 London
Defeats Peter Rann in tournament final
…
Peter Rann 1967 Croydon
Beat Ken Joyce in tournament final
(Still champion in 1974 when he retires)
…
Ray Crawley >10/1977
Billed by Verdun-Leslie promotions
…
Keith Haward >9/1984
…
Judo Al Hollamby >1/1985
…
J Riley >10/1988
Southern Area Welterweight Title
Mick McManus? (billed as Southern Area challenger to British title) March 1951
Jack Quesick
Mick McManus 20/11/1954 Portsmouth
(Still champion in 9/1958
Still champion in 1965
Still champion 11/1968)
Southern Area Lightweight Title
Ray Fury 28/11/1963 Maidstone
Beat Doug Joyce in tournament final
Still/again champ in 9/1964 (or at mid-heavyweight)
Bruno only ever had his sash during his reign. Can we guess that Judo Al absconded stateside with his physical belt the day after Bruno beat him? I'm guessing there there was a real belt as they wouldn't have had such a big RAH tourney in 1967 without one.
If you are looking for continuity in Southern area titles:
- Peter Rann was Middleweight champion for years and years, assumed superhero status to beat even bill toppers in title bouts, and then lost regularly in most of his run-of-the-mill bouts.
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Giant Haystacks...makes perfect sense, and thanks so much for your help and words of encouragement, much appreciated Dear Hack. Southern Area Hwt title existed for a long time (40's-50's and 60's), looks like initial champ was Anglo-Italian Mancelli, yes there was a physical belt. I am not sure if the belt was still around when Hayes and Elrington traded the title back and forth though. Good chance Mancelli retired the belt, since he never actually lost it and switched from wrestling to commenting on wrestling. Not sure if he was a TV commenter or a writing journalist.
The topic "Who Was The Best Crowd Pulling British Wrestler Who Was Never A Champion" strayed into the Southern Area title, and some interesting revelations too.
Callsignmag
"... going back to Jack Pye's time and jumping forward right through to the 60s and 70s, surely titles were meaningless with different wrestlers being announced as 'champions' even though they may have lost the title elsewhere or maybe never even having won one in the first place.
I well remember Al Hayes winning the South Eastern Heavyweight belt at the Hackney Empire under Paul Lincoln's stewardship, then fighting for it later that week at Leyton Baths after being announced as the challenger and failing to win, whilst the following weekend suddenly coming up with the belt after being introduced as having won the SE heavyweight champion the previous weekend! Later that week at the Granada Edmonton, Al was on the bill again but this time no mention of a title - although that night provided a first for me when the MC asked spectators if there was a doctor in the house after Dr Death had pummelled Rebel Ray Hunter into a bloody mess!!
ruslan-pashayev
Al Hayes winning the South Eastern Heavyweight belt...was there an actual physical belt involved?
callsignmag
There definitely was a SE H/W belt because I saw it presented occasionally. Other times you had to use your imagination. How real it was is another matter as Paul Lincoln wasn't famous for his spending prowess...
The Ost
Southern Area Heavyweight title was a title that was won, lost and even defended. Whether there was an actual belt is another story. But it was a different title than the South Eastern one.
I'm replying here to a private message sent by Ruslan because I think it will add to this thread
Sorry, Ruslan I haven't come across a photo of Mancelli or Hayes with the southern England belt, still got a couple of places to look but not hopeful.
We are talking about two versions of Al Hayes Southern Title. The one I knew of, and I guess most others, is the one that Al held from November, 1967 until going to the USA
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
Still champion in 4/1971
Bruno Elrington Jan? 1972 Portsmouth
I wasn't aware of Hayes claiming any Southern area belt under Paul Lincoln, hardly surprising as it was so meaningless. This was pre the 1966 merger/takeover of Lincoln by Dale Martin so the two titles are unconnected Ruslan, and once you've uncovered a photo of one you will still have a search for the other.
Your research is fascinating Ruslan and you've taken us all into an area that I guess most of us have disregarded for decades. As has been mentioned previously, and I endorse fully, titles were of little importance in British wrestling. They were more a marketing tool to imply credibility and add value to skilled wrestlers without flamboyant gimmicks. Joint Promotions (Mountevans) British titles are the only ones with any lineage or continuity. Occasionally a regional title (Southern Area welterweight and heavyweight for instance) has a bit of continuity. But when it comes to the independents, like Hayes and his Southern Area Belt for Paul Lincoln, or even heir British titles, you'll be looking for consistency and continuity like a needle in a haystack. A Giant Haystacks.
wow great info thanks for posting appreciate. Basically they had all major divisions. Did they have any trophies emblematic of those titles at all? Who was officially running that Promotion?
The Welterwight title was the key one in the early sixties, and the central spark of the Pallo-McManus feud. I their matches must be the only time regional titles were contested on tv?
This is one of the regional titles I have been trying to piece together. This is what I have so far (unfortunately the formatting is disturbed when I paste it into this forum, so it may be hard to read):
Southern Area Heavyweight Title
Tony Mancelli >9/1949
Dropkick Johnny Peters 1950s?
Still champion on independents 2/1962
Tony Mancelli 1950s-1965
Retires undefeated
VACANT
Joe Cornelius 11/11/1965 Walthamstow
Retires undefeated 1967
VACANT
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
Still champion in 4/1971
Bruno Elrington Jan? 1972 Portsmouth
…
Tony Charles
Bruno Elrington
Steve Veidor >2/1976
Still/again champ in 11/1976
…
Bill Bromley
Neil Sands 1980? Croydon
Johnny Kincaid 15/3/1980 Southampton
…
Alan J Batt 1980s
…
Neil Sands 1987
May have been the reign where Sands defeated Bill Bromley
Ron, South London is Canning Town as well right? That was a pro-wreslting Mecca during the wrestling boom the Hack's Era 1904-10. Peter Gotz himself was billed being from there...
I always thought the regional titles were "owned" by the local promoter in the area, to enable them to have "Championship" matches on a regular basis, or to make a particular bill enticing, because a "Champion" was appearing that night. The fact that we had Champions that held titles for a decade, makes me wonder if, in fact, the Wrestler owned the actual belt/title.
I only remember the welter and heavy titles being in use in my time. Ray Fury was rumoured to have the light heavy, but we never saw him. I was at Northampton 1970 - 1974. McManus and Hayes were people i remember billed as such.
STILL NO BELTS?!
ruslan-pashayev
Apr 06, 2019
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
I saw Ed Bright billed as Southern Area champ early 1950s, pre Joint Promotions. I think only Mancelli was billed as Joint champ in the 1950s. This was Dale Martin land and I'd be very surprised if they spent money on any regional belts
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
In 1993 Mal Sanders held a belt with several previous holders' names engraved on it including Judo Al Hayes. I think that was a southern area title.
An article from the May 1967 issue of The Wrestler. All the champions and not one physical belt between them:
As you can see from these programmes, when they did have a chance to feature a picture of the title, they never did. Which leads me to believe there wasn't one.
Recently I was told that when Johnny Kincaid was a champion he actually had a physical championship belt symbolic of the Southern Area Hwt Title? Does anyone remember seeing it?
surprised there's no images of Mancelli with his belt, and he sure did have a belt, I recall seeing countless number of references to it in contemporary newspapers bills (articles) which spoke of Southern Area Hwt Championship.
Tony Mancelli would have been heavyweight champ until 1965, so him.
Great handbill for the ko tourney, thanks. Just goes to emphasise that Ray must have invested in his own belt because Harry Kendall was in the field and would have far and away been the most skilful wrestler.
I was influenced by all titles, 100%. Even Wayne Bridges (Kent) and Roy Bull Davis (Western Area). Certainly. And let's not forget the Jewish champions - Micky Gold was one. I don't recall seeing a CofE title...
I do think that in the sixties the RAH Trophy was a very fair equivalent to soccer's FA Cup. The FA Cup seemed to stay important until the nineties, but the RAH Trophy was snuffed out for some unfathomable reason in 1972. Also the winner of the trophy went on to face an important opponent at the end of season spectacular, for example that's how Bruno got to face Jean Ferre. I loved all that structure, it allowed me to validate my interest in a way that made me feel not too daft. But all the while I was trying to work out just who became even regional title holders and why, just like I/we are still doing today. Just that years ago, I was probably way off target.
I know you are looking for precision, Ruslan. The definition of southern England being south of the Thames falls down when you see Rushden's Doug Joyce in the tourney. Rushden's nearly a hundred miles north of the Thames.
Southern Area Light Hwt Championship Tourney...who was the heavyweight champ when this tourney happened?
Here is a handbill promoting a KO tournament for the Southern Area Light Heavyweight title.
Sep 28, 1963, i'm pretty confident Ray Fury won this tournament.
Hack, this is the question of all questions !!!! Thanks so much !!! Appreciated a lot !!!
I searched the old forum for previous discussion of this topic but couldn't find anything. Strange, as we discussed them at length years ago. Anyway, the recent talk of belts got me thinking!
Forum members have been pretty dismissive of regional title claims in the past. The fact that Jim Hussey had been Northern Heavyweight Champion meant nothing to me. Alan Wood was one of my favourite welterweights, but I didn't care whether he was Northern Area Champion or not.
We have noted that the British titles were mainly held by northern wrestlers. I remember saying that up north we didn't care about regional champions because we had the national ones.
So, my question is aimed at members from Dale Martin land.
As you rarely got your hands on a British title did the regional titles have more significance to you?
After all, we have seen earlier in this topic that the heavyweight title did have some lineage?
Another specific question. Which would you say was more prestigious, winning the Southern Area Heavyweight Belt or winning the Royal Albert Hall Heavyweight Tournament?
Yes, sure Bernard. I was thinking of the late sixties part of Fury's reign.
Anglo said :-
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Hi Anglo. Wasn't Ernie Riley British Lightheavyweight Champion in 1962?
what is amazing is that title existed for at least 20 years and there's no a single photo of any champion with the belt emblematic of that title, reminds me situation with mythical Wryton Belt.
I think the Ray Fury angle is interesting. An undercarder who was the only holder of the SELHC for a decade or so, with no predecessor and no successor. Isn't this a glaring sign that he bought himself a belt and said to the promoter: "Now you can make a lowly undercarder like me top-of-the-bill somewhere once or twice a month in a title bout. I'll bring me belt."
Similar signs with Billy Joyce on wiki, just loaning his belt out to a series of buddies (Davies, Campbell, Portz, Mitchell) for a few days at a time. They could then tell their mums that they were BHCs.
In the Southern England Heavyweight lineage, Tony Charles's name is dropped into every list as garnish, but without any detail whatsoever. I researched this many mons ago, but can't remember my findings. Was he just in that 1967 RAH tourney? Did he ever actually own the title? Certainly not in 1972, as one list claims.
Thanks. Would love to see the belt if you can find. Obviously I need to clear up the Ray Fury situation, unless he won two tournaments at Maidstone, which I think is unlikely.
Brilliant thanks so much for sharing, much appreciated. I will have to dig deeper about the Southern Area Belt. I sure will be back on this subject. But yeah there was a belt, another question if Hayes ever held it, or Anglo-Italian retired it with the original title.
Here's what I have for the Southern Area titles. I haven't researched the South Eastern title yet (although it being a Paul Lincoln title it would be hard to do as titles seemed to come and go on a whim there): This is my most recent information. The Southern Area Heavyweight is quite an interesting curio as it starts in the 30's, goes through Dale Martin and ends up in the independents in the 80's. Lots of gaps in the listings for all these titles as they were often forgotten about. But i'm hooping to fill in at least some of the gaps.
Southern Area Heavyweight Title
Tiger Ted Baxter >6/1935
…
Tony Mancelli >9/1949
Dropkick Johnny Peters 1950s?
(Still champion on independents 2/1962)
Tony Mancelli 1950s-1965
Retires undefeated
VACANT
Joe Cornelius 11/11/1965 Walthamstow
Wins a KO tournament. Retires undefeated 1967
VACANT
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
(Still champion in 4/1971)
Bruno Elrington 10/1/1972 Portsmouth
…
Tony Charles
Bruno Elrington
Steve Veidor >2/1976
(Still/again champ in 11/1976)
…
Bill Bromley
Neil Sands >11/1978 Croydon
Johnny Kincaid 15/3/1980 Southampton
…
Alan J Batt 1980s
…
Crusher? Mason
Steve Veidor 4/Nov/1983 Brighton
…
Neil Sands 1987
(May have been the reign where Sands defeated Bill Bromley)
…
John Wilson >10/1990
Southern Area Light Heavyweight Title
Ray Fury 28/9/1962 Maidstone
Wins tournament (listed for tournament, results unknown)
Still/again champion in 1965?-1967, 1/1970
Southern Area Middleweight Title
Al Jackson 12/1952
…
Percy Kid Pittman 1955
…
Joe Murphy 1965 London
Defeats Peter Rann in tournament final
…
Peter Rann 1967 Croydon
Beat Ken Joyce in tournament final
(Still champion in 1974 when he retires)
…
Ray Crawley >10/1977
Billed by Verdun-Leslie promotions
…
Keith Haward >9/1984
…
Judo Al Hollamby >1/1985
…
J Riley >10/1988
Southern Area Welterweight Title
Mick McManus? (billed as Southern Area challenger to British title) March 1951
Jack Quesick
Mick McManus 20/11/1954 Portsmouth
(Still champion in 9/1958
Still champion in 1965
Still champion 11/1968)
Southern Area Lightweight Title
Ray Fury 28/11/1963 Maidstone
Beat Doug Joyce in tournament final
Still/again champ in 9/1964 (or at mid-heavyweight)
…
Alan Miquet >1968
Beat Bobby Barnes in tournament final
Bruno only ever had his sash during his reign. Can we guess that Judo Al absconded stateside with his physical belt the day after Bruno beat him? I'm guessing there there was a real belt as they wouldn't have had such a big RAH tourney in 1967 without one.
If you are looking for continuity in Southern area titles:
- Peter Rann was Middleweight champion for years and years, assumed superhero status to beat even bill toppers in title bouts, and then lost regularly in most of his run-of-the-mill bouts.
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Giant Haystacks...makes perfect sense, and thanks so much for your help and words of encouragement, much appreciated Dear Hack. Southern Area Hwt title existed for a long time (40's-50's and 60's), looks like initial champ was Anglo-Italian Mancelli, yes there was a physical belt. I am not sure if the belt was still around when Hayes and Elrington traded the title back and forth though. Good chance Mancelli retired the belt, since he never actually lost it and switched from wrestling to commenting on wrestling. Not sure if he was a TV commenter or a writing journalist.
The topic "Who Was The Best Crowd Pulling British Wrestler Who Was Never A Champion" strayed into the Southern Area title, and some interesting revelations too.
Callsignmag
"... going back to Jack Pye's time and jumping forward right through to the 60s and 70s, surely titles were meaningless with different wrestlers being announced as 'champions' even though they may have lost the title elsewhere or maybe never even having won one in the first place.
I well remember Al Hayes winning the South Eastern Heavyweight belt at the Hackney Empire under Paul Lincoln's stewardship, then fighting for it later that week at Leyton Baths after being announced as the challenger and failing to win, whilst the following weekend suddenly coming up with the belt after being introduced as having won the SE heavyweight champion the previous weekend! Later that week at the Granada Edmonton, Al was on the bill again but this time no mention of a title - although that night provided a first for me when the MC asked spectators if there was a doctor in the house after Dr Death had pummelled Rebel Ray Hunter into a bloody mess!!
ruslan-pashayev
Al Hayes winning the South Eastern Heavyweight belt...was there an actual physical belt involved?
callsignmag
There definitely was a SE H/W belt because I saw it presented occasionally. Other times you had to use your imagination. How real it was is another matter as Paul Lincoln wasn't famous for his spending prowess...
The Ost
Southern Area Heavyweight title was a title that was won, lost and even defended. Whether there was an actual belt is another story. But it was a different title than the South Eastern one.
I'm replying here to a private message sent by Ruslan because I think it will add to this thread
Sorry, Ruslan I haven't come across a photo of Mancelli or Hayes with the southern England belt, still got a couple of places to look but not hopeful.
We are talking about two versions of Al Hayes Southern Title. The one I knew of, and I guess most others, is the one that Al held from November, 1967 until going to the USA
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
Still champion in 4/1971
Bruno Elrington Jan? 1972 Portsmouth
I wasn't aware of Hayes claiming any Southern area belt under Paul Lincoln, hardly surprising as it was so meaningless. This was pre the 1966 merger/takeover of Lincoln by Dale Martin so the two titles are unconnected Ruslan, and once you've uncovered a photo of one you will still have a search for the other.
Your research is fascinating Ruslan and you've taken us all into an area that I guess most of us have disregarded for decades. As has been mentioned previously, and I endorse fully, titles were of little importance in British wrestling. They were more a marketing tool to imply credibility and add value to skilled wrestlers without flamboyant gimmicks. Joint Promotions (Mountevans) British titles are the only ones with any lineage or continuity. Occasionally a regional title (Southern Area welterweight and heavyweight for instance) has a bit of continuity. But when it comes to the independents, like Hayes and his Southern Area Belt for Paul Lincoln, or even heir British titles, you'll be looking for consistency and continuity like a needle in a haystack. A Giant Haystacks.
wow great info thanks for posting appreciate. Basically they had all major divisions. Did they have any trophies emblematic of those titles at all? Who was officially running that Promotion?
The Welterwight title was the key one in the early sixties, and the central spark of the Pallo-McManus feud. I their matches must be the only time regional titles were contested on tv?
This is one of the regional titles I have been trying to piece together. This is what I have so far (unfortunately the formatting is disturbed when I paste it into this forum, so it may be hard to read):
Southern Area Heavyweight Title
Tony Mancelli >9/1949
Dropkick Johnny Peters 1950s?
Still champion on independents 2/1962
Tony Mancelli 1950s-1965
Retires undefeated
VACANT
Joe Cornelius 11/11/1965 Walthamstow
Retires undefeated 1967
VACANT
Judo Al Hayes 11/15/1967 Royal Albert Hall
Beat Bruno Elrington in tournament final
Still champion in 4/1971
Bruno Elrington Jan? 1972 Portsmouth
…
Tony Charles
Bruno Elrington
Steve Veidor >2/1976
Still/again champ in 11/1976
…
Bill Bromley
Neil Sands 1980? Croydon
Johnny Kincaid 15/3/1980 Southampton
…
Alan J Batt 1980s
…
Neil Sands 1987
May have been the reign where Sands defeated Bill Bromley
The ones I remember are Johnny Peters, Joe Cornelius, Al Hayes, and Bruno Elrington.
The southern area heavyweight title does seem to be one of the few regional titles that was actively contested.
For all of the time that I went to Newcastle and on bills much later, Tony Mancelli was always billed as Southern Area Heavyweight Champion.
It was always pronounced Manselli, but logically in Italian, it would be Manchelli.
Ron, South London is Canning Town as well right? That was a pro-wreslting Mecca during the wrestling boom the Hack's Era 1904-10. Peter Gotz himself was billed being from there...
Judo Al Hayes...according his obituary he was a multiple time SAH champion during 1967-70.
I always thought the regional titles were "owned" by the local promoter in the area, to enable them to have "Championship" matches on a regular basis, or to make a particular bill enticing, because a "Champion" was appearing that night. The fact that we had Champions that held titles for a decade, makes me wonder if, in fact, the Wrestler owned the actual belt/title.
Interesting to see if anyone else had a go at holding this championship during the years 1949-1963.
At the end of his career I am still finding Mancelli.
For a long time during the TV years Bruno Elrington was champ and I often wondered about it.
I don't think it existed pre war but after the war I find Toni Mancelli.
The promoter I assume ran things at Crawley probably in conjunction with Dale Martins.
Dear Friends, any info on this subject will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance to everyone for their feedback.