I only remember the welter and heavy titles being in use in my time. Ray Fury was rumoured to have the light heavy, but we never saw him. I was at Northampton 1970 - 1974. McManus and Hayes were people i remember billed as such.
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
I saw Ed Bright billed as Southern Area champ early 1950s, pre Joint Promotions. I think only Mancelli was billed as Joint champ in the 1950s. This was Dale Martin land and I'd be very surprised if they spent money on any regional belts
in the early 1950s Dale Martin were running their own British titles not only regionals. Let's not forget the Arena Gold Belts, those were symbollic of the British Titles under DM before they decided to join JP. I know McManus held one such gold belt. I never seen a pic though. But it appeared in many newspapers, the info about it I mean. Did anyone see such belt pic of McManus it would be a photo from the early 50s, 1953-54 maybe?!
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
As you can see from these programmes, when they did have a chance to feature a picture of the title, they never did. Which leads me to believe there wasn't one.
Recently I was told that when Johnny Kincaid was a champion he actually had a physical championship belt symbolic of the Southern Area Hwt Title? Does anyone remember seeing it?
surprised there's no images of Mancelli with his belt, and he sure did have a belt, I recall seeing countless number of references to it in contemporary newspapers bills (articles) which spoke of Southern Area Hwt Championship.
Tony Mancelli would have been heavyweight champ until 1965, so him.
Great handbill for the ko tourney, thanks. Just goes to emphasise that Ray must have invested in his own belt because Harry Kendall was in the field and would have far and away been the most skilful wrestler.
I was influenced by all titles, 100%. Even Wayne Bridges (Kent) and Roy Bull Davis (Western Area). Certainly. And let's not forget the Jewish champions - Micky Gold was one. I don't recall seeing a CofE title...
I do think that in the sixties the RAH Trophy was a very fair equivalent to soccer's FA Cup. The FA Cup seemed to stay important until the nineties, but the RAH Trophy was snuffed out for some unfathomable reason in 1972. Also the winner of the trophy went on to face an important opponent at the end of season spectacular, for example that's how Bruno got to face Jean Ferre. I loved all that structure, it allowed me to validate my interest in a way that made me feel not too daft. But all the while I was trying to work out just who became even regional title holders and why, just like I/we are still doing today. Just that years ago, I was probably way off target.
I know you are looking for precision, Ruslan. The definition of southern England being south of the Thames falls down when you see Rushden's Doug Joyce in the tourney. Rushden's nearly a hundred miles north of the Thames.
I searched the old forum for previous discussion of this topic but couldn't find anything. Strange, as we discussed them at length years ago. Anyway, the recent talk of belts got me thinking!
Forum members have been pretty dismissive of regional title claims in the past. The fact that Jim Hussey had been Northern Heavyweight Champion meant nothing to me. Alan Wood was one of my favourite welterweights, but I didn't care whether he was Northern Area Champion or not.
We have noted that the British titles were mainly held by northern wrestlers. I remember saying that up north we didn't care about regional champions because we had the national ones.
So, my question is aimed at members from Dale Martin land.
As you rarely got your hands on a British title did the regional titles have more significance to you?
After all, we have seen earlier in this topic that the heavyweight title did have some lineage?
Another specific question. Which would you say was more prestigious, winning the Southern Area Heavyweight Belt or winning the Royal Albert Hall Heavyweight Tournament?
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Hi Anglo. Wasn't Ernie Riley British Lightheavyweight Champion in 1962?
what is amazing is that title existed for at least 20 years and there's no a single photo of any champion with the belt emblematic of that title, reminds me situation with mythical Wryton Belt.
I think the Ray Fury angle is interesting. An undercarder who was the only holder of the SELHC for a decade or so, with no predecessor and no successor. Isn't this a glaring sign that he bought himself a belt and said to the promoter: "Now you can make a lowly undercarder like me top-of-the-bill somewhere once or twice a month in a title bout. I'll bring me belt."
Similar signs with Billy Joyce on wiki, just loaning his belt out to a series of buddies (Davies, Campbell, Portz, Mitchell) for a few days at a time. They could then tell their mums that they were BHCs.
In the Southern England Heavyweight lineage, Tony Charles's name is dropped into every list as garnish, but without any detail whatsoever. I researched this many mons ago, but can't remember my findings. Was he just in that 1967 RAH tourney? Did he ever actually own the title? Certainly not in 1972, as one list claims.
Thanks. Would love to see the belt if you can find. Obviously I need to clear up the Ray Fury situation, unless he won two tournaments at Maidstone, which I think is unlikely.
Brilliant thanks so much for sharing, much appreciated. I will have to dig deeper about the Southern Area Belt. I sure will be back on this subject. But yeah there was a belt, another question if Hayes ever held it, or Anglo-Italian retired it with the original title.
I only remember the welter and heavy titles being in use in my time. Ray Fury was rumoured to have the light heavy, but we never saw him. I was at Northampton 1970 - 1974. McManus and Hayes were people i remember billed as such.
STILL NO BELTS?!
ruslan-pashayev
Apr 06, 2019
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
I saw Ed Bright billed as Southern Area champ early 1950s, pre Joint Promotions. I think only Mancelli was billed as Joint champ in the 1950s. This was Dale Martin land and I'd be very surprised if they spent money on any regional belts
thanks to everyone...I am not sure about Southern Area belt in the 50s. Toni Mancelli held Ring of Blackfriars belt in 1955. I never seen any photo of it either.
In 1993 Mal Sanders held a belt with several previous holders' names engraved on it including Judo Al Hayes. I think that was a southern area title.
An article from the May 1967 issue of The Wrestler. All the champions and not one physical belt between them:
As you can see from these programmes, when they did have a chance to feature a picture of the title, they never did. Which leads me to believe there wasn't one.
Recently I was told that when Johnny Kincaid was a champion he actually had a physical championship belt symbolic of the Southern Area Hwt Title? Does anyone remember seeing it?
surprised there's no images of Mancelli with his belt, and he sure did have a belt, I recall seeing countless number of references to it in contemporary newspapers bills (articles) which spoke of Southern Area Hwt Championship.
Tony Mancelli would have been heavyweight champ until 1965, so him.
Great handbill for the ko tourney, thanks. Just goes to emphasise that Ray must have invested in his own belt because Harry Kendall was in the field and would have far and away been the most skilful wrestler.
I was influenced by all titles, 100%. Even Wayne Bridges (Kent) and Roy Bull Davis (Western Area). Certainly. And let's not forget the Jewish champions - Micky Gold was one. I don't recall seeing a CofE title...
I do think that in the sixties the RAH Trophy was a very fair equivalent to soccer's FA Cup. The FA Cup seemed to stay important until the nineties, but the RAH Trophy was snuffed out for some unfathomable reason in 1972. Also the winner of the trophy went on to face an important opponent at the end of season spectacular, for example that's how Bruno got to face Jean Ferre. I loved all that structure, it allowed me to validate my interest in a way that made me feel not too daft. But all the while I was trying to work out just who became even regional title holders and why, just like I/we are still doing today. Just that years ago, I was probably way off target.
I know you are looking for precision, Ruslan. The definition of southern England being south of the Thames falls down when you see Rushden's Doug Joyce in the tourney. Rushden's nearly a hundred miles north of the Thames.
Southern Area Light Hwt Championship Tourney...who was the heavyweight champ when this tourney happened?
Here is a handbill promoting a KO tournament for the Southern Area Light Heavyweight title.
Sep 28, 1963, i'm pretty confident Ray Fury won this tournament.
Hack, this is the question of all questions !!!! Thanks so much !!! Appreciated a lot !!!
I searched the old forum for previous discussion of this topic but couldn't find anything. Strange, as we discussed them at length years ago. Anyway, the recent talk of belts got me thinking!
Forum members have been pretty dismissive of regional title claims in the past. The fact that Jim Hussey had been Northern Heavyweight Champion meant nothing to me. Alan Wood was one of my favourite welterweights, but I didn't care whether he was Northern Area Champion or not.
We have noted that the British titles were mainly held by northern wrestlers. I remember saying that up north we didn't care about regional champions because we had the national ones.
So, my question is aimed at members from Dale Martin land.
As you rarely got your hands on a British title did the regional titles have more significance to you?
After all, we have seen earlier in this topic that the heavyweight title did have some lineage?
Another specific question. Which would you say was more prestigious, winning the Southern Area Heavyweight Belt or winning the Royal Albert Hall Heavyweight Tournament?
Yes, sure Bernard. I was thinking of the late sixties part of Fury's reign.
Anglo said :-
- Ray Fury was Southern England Light-Heavyweight Champion at a time when there wasn't even a national champion. Thank heavens for The Wrestler which made us (well, me at least) believe that all these unsatisfactory dealings really were unsatisfactory and frowned upon by the powers that be.
Hi Anglo. Wasn't Ernie Riley British Lightheavyweight Champion in 1962?
what is amazing is that title existed for at least 20 years and there's no a single photo of any champion with the belt emblematic of that title, reminds me situation with mythical Wryton Belt.
I think the Ray Fury angle is interesting. An undercarder who was the only holder of the SELHC for a decade or so, with no predecessor and no successor. Isn't this a glaring sign that he bought himself a belt and said to the promoter: "Now you can make a lowly undercarder like me top-of-the-bill somewhere once or twice a month in a title bout. I'll bring me belt."
Similar signs with Billy Joyce on wiki, just loaning his belt out to a series of buddies (Davies, Campbell, Portz, Mitchell) for a few days at a time. They could then tell their mums that they were BHCs.
In the Southern England Heavyweight lineage, Tony Charles's name is dropped into every list as garnish, but without any detail whatsoever. I researched this many mons ago, but can't remember my findings. Was he just in that 1967 RAH tourney? Did he ever actually own the title? Certainly not in 1972, as one list claims.
Thanks. Would love to see the belt if you can find. Obviously I need to clear up the Ray Fury situation, unless he won two tournaments at Maidstone, which I think is unlikely.
Brilliant thanks so much for sharing, much appreciated. I will have to dig deeper about the Southern Area Belt. I sure will be back on this subject. But yeah there was a belt, another question if Hayes ever held it, or Anglo-Italian retired it with the original title.