St John v Svajick Matches

Zando Zabo was famously known as the Elephant Boy, Tony Olivas.

Always Josef Zarbo and never Sandor Rozsa

Who the hell is this. It can only happen in Wrestling. Mind you this guy looks a heavyweight.

So that's one theory out of the window.

Well, cats and pigeons. Just when you thought it might be safe to return to the Andreas/Sandor mystery.

Ron came up with another cunning plan.

That Josef Szabo might be Sandor Rosza, with Andreas picking up the name when Josef moved away.

Eddie Rose knew Josef well, so we thought it a good idea to ask him.

It was. This was his reply, "Joe lived in Manchester and promoted quite a few shows. He was Hungarian and I do not remember him using any other name, Rosza as far as I remember was an alternative name for Andy Swarjics (?) of Accrington."

Well, Phil will be happy as we all return to square one.

Great stuff Phil and thanks.

As a genealogist I should be able to find Andreas's death but I have tried every variation of his name and non seem to be the exact spelling. Pretty much the same with most Hungarians.

Sandor Rosza is another great mystery.

Just realised that my last post (written in the comment part) is now visible on the forum site, therefore Ron I'll give you the answers again, but using the "comment" box instead of the "reply" box.

Dead or alive: Earlier this year I made a search in the "Accrington Website". I wanted to get in touch with Andreas and meet up with him at the reunion in Blackpool. I got an answer from someone saying that Andreas passed away some time ago, but to my question later on where and when, I haven't had an answer up until now.

Real name:we always knew him as Andreas Swaijick, which to my knowledge is the real name.

Olympic gold:Andreas was a very good amature wrestler in his native Hungary, but never reached the heights of olympic gold. You are correct when you say "fancuful promotors".

Another thing on Ian St John. Was an Accrington man through and through, not a scotish wrestler, in fact he lived just further up the road than myself. His real name as can be seen in the A-Z section was Harry Walsh.

Hope this reply works this time!

Hi Hack,

I made 2 replies to Ron yesterday and also this same question, which is, is there a problem with the website? Please note that nothing which I wrote and published is showing up on the forum!

Thanks in advanced for any help.

A new name to throw into the pot. Just popped up once, 1961 in Darwen, Lancashire, so same neck of the woods Andreas Veitcheck.

I don't know the actual correct spelling of the name, Phil might. When I discussed with Phil a couple of years back neither of us could find if he was still alive.

Persisting a bit on Svajick I have a few more questions.

Not mentioned in A-Z write up as alive or dead !!!!!

Do we know the real spelling / Real Name

Any truth of being an Olympic Gold medalist.

Or is it fanciful billing by North West promotions

Sorry to go a bit sideways,but does anyone know who "the Harlem Hellcats" were?

I think it's quite possible that Phil is right about Andreas working as Sandor Rosza and there being another Sandor too. Stranger things have happened in wrestling. Much stranger.

Maybe Eddie Rose? Graham Brook, was also under the same impression. What I can say is, that he wasn't from the Bob Bannister gym in Accrington.

Cheers

Going off-line now as my wine is getting too warm☺️

Just a bit odd that you don't know about this Phil as it was your time.

Don't suppose you know anyone we could ask.

It's such a long time ago. After finding this guy a couple of times in 1965 in tag with Svajic there is then a gap of five years before he pops up again , maybe because Svajic is taking his name.

Could the original have had only a brief career , but someone thought it was a great name.

Cheers Phil

Hi Ron,

No explanation,I'm stumped.Always under the impresion that Sandor Rozza was Andreas! So now we need to know who was Sandor Rozza?

Cheers from Tyrol, where I'm on holiday, hence the late response

.

But now I must point out to Hack , Phil Kenyon and others that yet again I have found a Sandor Rosza tagging with Swajsic

Can anyone explain

Still searching and gallery up to 41 now and finally I find Joint Promotions putting this match on.

Thanks Ron for the enlightenment. Just noticed though that this "John Allan" was spelt with an "a" and the other was John(y) Allen, spelt with an "e". As usual in those days the promotors played tricks in any way or form that they chose!

As Ian has now passed away, I can tell you another little anecdote: Ian always wanted a cauliflower ear, so he asked me on a regular basis if I would forearm smash him on the ear! This just didn't work as his ears were in stature, very thin, but he took the smashes which were force-wise to the best of my ability without really flinching, which goes to show that even outside of the ring he was a tough wrestler.

Also Phil Kenyon asked about Accrington's Johnny Allen . There is a suggestion he was Bolton.

Now I have added in the Sandor Rosza bouts my gallery has grown to 34.

The report above begs the question , Was there really an original Sandor Rosza.

How else can we explain it.

Also , at the start of the thread I stated I never saw their bout , well I have just found a couple of Swinton shows and time really does play tricks as I only have a faint recollection of a decent bout as people have said , Played out at speed.

The Time Detective strikes again. An interesting find Ron.

This was probably an "in joke" about which I have no knowledge but I did once referee a Swajcsic/St.John bout for Bobby Barron at Diamond Lil's Showbar in Morecambe. The M.C. was Dave Brown who I believe had seen better days working as a light comedian on summer shows but was now fighting the temptation of drink alongside working for Bob. He liked to inject a little of his own personality into these shows. As scripted, a fall had occurred in the third with the equaliser in the fifth with the final round being an all-out affair culminating in a draw.

Not only did Brown announce the equalising fall but he then said, "Ladies and gentlemen, hasn't this been a wonderfully sporting contest? This is what wrestling should be all about (applause and noises of approval). With just one round to go, wouldn't it be wonderful if this were to finish in a draw?"

Swajcsic and St. John watched this performance in horror before making sure, a few moments into round six, that one of them (I forget which one) got the winning pin. Along with Rose/Wilson, Goodman/Pedro and no doubt countless others, a bout worth its weight in gold offering class and professionalism at the very highest level.

Graham and Phil , can we continue the debate. I noticed the A-z does not have Svajick as Rosza and I came across a write up in June 1965.

What do you make of this

Some more to add to my collection then. If I knew they were one and the same , I had forgotten. They worked their bout for a very long time.

Graham just beat me to it! Sandor Rosza was indeed Andreas. For obvious reasons, promotors had to change the name of wrestlers, in the case of Andreas they had numerous choices.

Cheers

I assume Ron's tongue is in his cheek. Sandor Rosza is, of course, Andras Swajcsic. And the Lichfield bill also features father versus son as Eric Taylor dons the bonnet to wrestle Steve. He did the same later with son Dave. For Orig Williams promotions he audaciously wrestled Steve without the bonnet but Steve was billed as Steve Mc.Cormack.

St John still seemed to be at it in 1976. And again in 1977 with a new partner to work against.

Hi all, Leeds town hall. Mon Dec 7th. 1970. BREAKS V SVARJIC.

Hope you all keep well Regards, Ian P

Here's a non match up spotted on ebay:

Great post Phil , I knew you could add something.

These two lead the way on duplication fights , I have collected about 20,000 bills and they have been the most noticeable.

Along the way I picked up 11 McManus V Pallo Bills and after a team effort on here we got a total of 30 known sightings.

But to get 20 bills in my collection and people coming on having watched them in other places , it is clear a few dozen bouts , if not a hundred is probably realistic.

But nice to get the picture of the type of bout and how it played out.

Looks like they both had fairly short but significant careers.

Any idea how much they got for a bout Phil , say about 1965.

Hi Ron,

Great thread!

Only too pleased to help you.

I trained with both Ian and Andreas from 1960 until I left for Switzerland in 1967, so I knew them both very well indeed. As to your queries I can tell you this much (only until 1967):

Q. Good guy bad guy: No, they were both good guys.

Q. Follow a certain pattern: Yes, they were both lightning fast!

Q. Great moves: Not really. As Andreas was the smaller, but stockier one he would concentrate on moves which were attached to body contact. Ian was the taller one so his moves would be the moves involving around the ring and coming off the ropes.

Q. How good were they: Very good, in my opinion one of the most underrated pair in wrestling at least in the sixties. This also applies to each one of them when wrestling somebody else.

Q. Matches good: Yes indeed. They were always greeted with loud cheers from the crowds, who appreciated wrestling.

A few anecdotes which will answer some other queries from other people on the forum:

Andreas was a very good amateur wrestler in his native Hungary, half his training would be on the mat and half in the ring. Frequently he would lay on his back, “bridge” and run circles around himself.

Ian was probably the busiest of the two, at least until 67. This because he was self-employed, Andreas on the other hand had a full-time job at the nearby English Electric works as an aircraft fitter, so getting time off work for the longer journeys needed, would be more difficult.

One thing that puzzles me, is the name of Johny Allen from Accrington on the bill that you posted. I never heard of this guy during my time at the gym, and after looking up the A – Z I can only find a Jack Allen but he began wrestling in the thirties until the late sixties, so I’m wondering who this might be. Maybe someone else can answer?

Cheers

Gosh , did not notice Marino's weight and in fact the first four wrestlers come to a terrific total , magnificently exaggerated of course.

And yes Two Rivers had Streiger as one of his greatest foils.

"I guess Milo Marion was Ron Marino."

Not at twenty-six stones Ron.

No submissions or KOs from St John and Svajic. I don't remember any special holds or moves. Tonight whilst planning something else for Heritage I came across this advert of a show I went to that didn't take place. It was cancelled without any notification, leaving fans waiting outside.

Look who was on the bill. That was one time I didn't see them.

I guess Milo Marion was Ron Marino.

Forgot to ask , I assume all the matches between St John and Svajick were with pin falls. I take it that based on speed and practice together they were not simulating submissions. Any double k.o.'s.

Any special holds or moves.

What about Milo Marino?

Pre Joint days Saint was also British or European middleweight champion!

This pair toured Ireland together twice 1965 and 1968 working with Sean O'Shea and Jack Cassidy , but in 1966 I find St John on his own.

Just noticed they stuck a title on Johnny Saint before he was with Joint.

Don't know who Bordanelli was.

Looks quite rare to find Svajick against other wrestlers. Got one here, wonder which one was the busier wrestler.

When it came to frequency Rose and Wilson took a bit of beating.

Just to add to the above Preston visit. In those days the spectators were let in free if the event was televised and I found myself well down a queue which stretched along the whole street, awaiting the doors opening. The first seats to be allocated were those downstairs facing the camera, which by the time I entered the hall had been filled and so was directed to a ringside seat on the blindside, so to speak. What a treat it was to watch in detail Mr Oddjob battle Farmer John Allan and during the Black Diamonds v White Eagles tag match, beIng verbally abused by Abe Ginsburg, (or was it John Foley - they looked identical in those black caps and beards!), who took exception to my comments at his treatment of Terry Jowett on the ropes right above me!

They must have wrestled each other hundreds of, if not a thousand times. I saw them at Kirkland Memorial Hall in 1963 or 1964. On 10th February 1965 Andreas made what, I think, was his only TV appearance. it was against Terry Nylands and broadcast live from The Queen’s Hall, Preston. I was there. The event is remembered for a malfunctioning ring fixture causing a long delay and the bout eventually continuing minus the middle rope! Svajic was a brilliant wrestler and it beats me as to why he was not more popular with the powers that were.

I saw them wrestle each other at least six times. They were all fantastic bouts though with hindsight we now all know it must have been a well rehearsed routine. They certainly made each other look good. They were both clean,and incredibly fast. I think they all ended in eight round draws. I don't think I saw Svajic on with anyone else. I did see St John against Johnny Saint, which I think was another draw.