From what I can gather by reading the posts on here I'd say most of you are what I'd call wrestling purists with an impressive knowledge base and a love of this great 'sport'. The question I'd like to ask is did any of you actually enjoy a Big Daddy bout? or like me did you find the whole farce an insult to your intelligence and an insult to wrestling that kept better wrestlers out of the limelight and made some great stars look like fools?
I certainly don't want a keyboard fight with anyone who enjoyed a Daddy match, just interested as to what it was you enjoyed?
I can be quite scathing towards wrestlers who annoyed me and while I had no time or interest for the likes of The Royal Bros or Johnny Saint I could certainly see the appeal some would find in the squeaky clean Royal/Faulkner getting his butt kicked by the bad guy and then fighting his way back to victory and in Johnny Saint's case I can see that he was an amazing technician and I understand that many would appreciate that. But The Big Daddy pantomime leaves me cold, in my opinion he offered absolutely nothing to wrestling and was partly responsible to its downfall. If you disagree that's fine but what was it you enjoyed?
He also had some other finishers back then such as a necklift/hangman (a submission in the chokeslam position) and an over the shoulder backbreaker. He would also stomp fallen opponents and boot them in the back of the shoulders after a posting.
Can anyone recall what method/methods Shirley's early 1970s knock outs took? i.e splash, forearm smash, back elbow, the double elbow? The double elbow began as a pinning technique that later changed to a knock out speciality.
I didn't say they were preparing him to replace Kendo, I said they were building the Guardsman up generally as a main event heavyweight monster heel,but he wasn't being built up as Kendo fodder either as that only became a possibility at short notice in Jan '73.
Assuming David is right about Crabtree being prepared by Morrell as a main eventer to fill a Kendo void I wonder if that caused more tension between Morrell and Dales.
Not that I'm aware of Mark, but others may know better.
does that footage still exist? Be fascinated to see it!
The first time I saw Shirley when he returned to Joint was when he made his tv debut and knocked out Pat Curry in the first round. At that stage I found him interesting. Two more quick tv wins and he was starting to become predictable. I remember towards the end of 1972 at Belle Vue and a group of fans who went to far more shows than me said it was the same everywhere and they had lost interest in him. The three quick tv wins did set us up for that first Nagasaki tv match which I did look forward to and was happy to see Nagasaki knock him out.
Like others (I'm sure) I've checked the Daddy/Elijah bout on Youtube.
Indeed, a good bout.
And Shirley could wrestle.
Yes I've seen it. I was reading the comments on the thread which suggest that even those moves were relatively limited. I am willing to accept that. Haystacks at his size could hardly have a lot of moves and as Daddy grew, you limit your body's range. But its a great pity there is no footage of him in earlier days.
Wouldn't it have been interesting if he'd learned more moves and kept off the extra weight, maintaining more of that original strong physique, as he returned to wrestling. But I can't see he'd have got away with the Big Daddy gimmick and popularity by doing so.
One final piece of Crabtree information possibly never been mentioned before.
Brian Crabtree made his debut on 9th October 1959 somewhere in Birmingham and beat Jim Sherry. This was reported in the Halifax Evening Courier such was the standing of the Crabtree name in the town at that time. Brother Max was also on the bill.
While I fully understand why people did not like Big Daddy matches, personally I found some of them entertaining, even though they were predictable. At my local venue one August Bank Holiday weekend, the place was sold out - it was standing room only - and the atmosphere was ELECTRIC!!! Never saw it like that again.
When Daddys music started up, the noise was deafening. Daddy marched around the outside of the ring, shaking hands with everybody he could and he even lifted up one little girl and put his top hat on her - I can still see her smile now!
I saw Daddy being partnered by many different wrestlers such as Steve Grey, Kid McCoy, Ian McGregor etc. What other bout could you see Danny Collins slap King Kong Kirk around the face? In my opinion, good entertainment.
As a side note, my Dad got me interested in wrestling as a young boy and it was he who took me to watch it live and I was hooked. When my father died two years ago, we were not sure what music to have at his funeral (as he was not big on music) so I suggested ' WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED'.
Brought back many happy memories and still does!
was he believable, did he ever have mentality to be a wrestler
It would appear that Shirley became the European champion on this night. Note it is a Jack Taylor Promotion.
Shirley won this bout with two straight falls which seems generous indeed from Martinson.
Fall one from an Airplane spin and the second quickly after before he could recover with a body splash and pin.
Within a month Shirley was back at the Shay again against American KIller Jack Scanlon.
It may not have been Joint Promotions , but done in his Hometown , it does seem to have been another peak in Shirley's career long before Big Daddy. Very much reminds me of the Formula for Doug Clark beating Gerstmans in the early 1930's. At this stage you could say , maybe he did the right thing leaving Joint.
Just for the record , I found it was June 6th 1959 that Shirley was declared the heavyweight Champion of Britain (alternative version). The match was at Leicester Granby Halls against Ed Bright. Shirley actually gave over a stone away and was 19st2lbs at the time.
Here he is that night with Brother Max. Almost sure it was a Jack Taylor Promotion. Bright Shoulder charged Crabtree several times in the third and then pinned him. Round four Crabtree threw Bright with a cross buttock and pinned him.
Shirleys winner in the 5th was an overhead bodyslam and press.
They stuck a belt on him and it was 10 minutes to get through the crowd back to the dressing rooms.
Okay I found the note, from early December 1953:
“Fans were informed Shirley Crabtree had left wrestling to return to rugby league”
Good to read you again, David.
I got abuse for saying this several years ago, but there are some good little nuggets in those matches where the tag partner in peril and the lighter heel are both tagged in.
I have read it was mid-60's when he quit (1966?) and went into running a nightclub. Came back in the early 70's.
It is interesting that Shirley originally had the backing of Norman Morrell. I guess he fell out of favour there for whatever reason.
When did he quit wrestling and talk about going back to playing league? I thought it was mid 1950's but maybe it was later?