I think this is new, or at least brings together comments made disjointedly.
Some months back Ruslan surprised us by finding a Mountevans champion, Colbeck I think, that pre-dated Joint Promotions. The ensuing investigations revealed that the first Mountevans had indeed been before 1952, the formation of Joint. I don't think we ever concluded just when, though we do know the rules were formed at the end of 1946.
Looking at an old topic on Red Kirkpatrick Main Mask posted an article on Kirkpatrick from January, 1951. I've only just noticed that below the article is a list of what appears to be the very first set of Mountevans champions, in 1950.
No logic Anglo, but it would be interesting to find when the Mounevans label was added to each of the weight champions.
It was volatile. A melting pot.
Wrestlers and promoters were jostling for prominence.
No need to look for logic. Need to trace develpoments from those who risked, tried, stood out, were innovators.
Logic may have crept in, a bit, in 1953.
Special Thanks To: The Ost and The Main Mask.
November 3rd was allegedly the title decider where Baldwin defeated Armstrong. Prior to that the title was vacant. Why it took so long, i'm not sure but it may have been due to Assirati, getting other promoters agreement, or a number of other issues.
bjh99 1h ago
Thanks again Hack. The more we think we know, the less it proves to be, as it turns out. I would have thought that Ernie Baldwin would have been the heavyweight on that list.
I understand exactly what you mean Bernard, this is a maze. Ernest was the first Mountevans champion we believe, and according to Ostie from The Land Of The Long White Cloud was the first owner of the Mountevans belt.
The article is January 1951.
On the January, 1950 programme from Earls Court there is no mention of a British title for Baldwin, just Yorkshire
Dale Martin's in January 1950 have Assirati as champion
In March, 1950 Morrell is still touting Ernest as Yorkshire champion
A look through Ron's albums I find references to Assirati as champion in 1950 but not Baldwin.
In March 1951 Baldwin still confined to Yorksire
In October 1951 Dale Martin still have Assirati as champion of Britain and Europe
Differentiating between the undocumented (i.e.) without evidence and documented (with evidence) the first undocumented evidence of Baldwin in a title match, without stating who was champion, is 3rd November,1951 at Middlesbrough against Dave Armstrong.
The first documented reference is 26th November, 1951, beating George Clark in Dundee.
Thanks Hack. I can rarely find anything useful using the search button.
Hi Ron, If you had set up a system, where you could call your wrestlers as champions and draw bigger crowds, you would not want to let your main rival in to it would you?
The Ost:
Yes, Ruslan and I went through this a while back (there were several topics on it and became confusing I imagine to decipher).
We could only ever find three champions with the original Mountevans belts; Busfield, Colbeck & Baldwin. Seems Colbeck kept his belt as to represent the European Welterweight title. Jim Breaks was also photographed wearing it.
Yes, I appreciate that "Ostie from The Land Of The Long White Cloud" (I think you should change your name).
But. If we went further down this road (and I'm not suggesting we do) we need to distinguish between recognition as Mountevans champions and holders of the physical belts, which around this time were not necessarily the same.
Also, would love to find more information on the January 30, 1950 show as Ray's results depict a very different show than what was advertised in Mat magazine: EMPESS HALL LONDON;Ali Bey 1-1 Assirati;A.Cadman bt Len Britton;Ronga 1-1 Ken Wilson;Duke of Earl bt Mancelli
Yes, Ruslan and I went through this a while back (there were several topics on it and became confusing I imagine to decipher).
We could only ever find three champions with the original Mountevans belts; Busfield, Colbeck & Baldwin. Seems Colbeck kept his belt as to represent the European Welterweight title. Jim Breaks was also photographed wearing it.
Here's a photo of George Busfield after defeating Bernard Murray at the Empress Hall on 4th December, 1950. Jack Beaumont was also on the bill.
Earlier in the year I found Colbeck at the Empress Hall, 30th January, 1950. It states that Colbeck will be presented with the first of the Mountevans belts, but names him as current champion.
Here you are Bernard
https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/bluebird-red-kirkpatrick
Don't think they were very keen to include Dale Martins Wrestlers at this time.
By the way, how do I find the article on Red Kirkpatrick please?
That's interesting Hack. I thought that I remembered people like Stead, Colbeck and Walsh being announced as Mount-Evans champions, before all the talk about JP being formed.
However the facts given in the write-up above the list may or may not be true.
Have we ever seen a bill for the competitions at Empress Hall? Did this take place or was it another figment of Norman Morrell's imagination?