TITLES GALORE FOR DYNAMITE KID!!

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The Dark side of the rings dynamite episode just aired this week if anyone wasn't aware

Well, they are both 230+ page books. To explain a little more for anyone who might not understand. Satoru Sayama, AKA Sammy Lee, AKA the original Tigermask, he of the legendary matches with Tom Billington, left pro wrestling to found a completely legitimate athletic all-in wrestling competition, he called "shooting", the name taken from the nomenclature used for a legitimate match between professionals. All matches for the first years were all amateur contests, with the "shooters" being ranked upon ability and experience, such as a class c beginner wouldn't be thrown to the wolves to face a class A experienced athlete. He changed the name to Shooto to avoid confusion with the firearm shooting sports.

Sounds good, is that something that could be cut and pasted onto here, as its own post, or section?

i've since scanned both the 1986 "introduction to the technical shooting fight" and the follow up from 1989, "Advanced Shooting: The road to pankration" if anyone wants a pdf.

Sing along with Sammy! Sayama was so over that he had hit records in Japan. I'm sure Dynamite could have also, if he were so inclined.

The hoops for the gallery have to take the cake as the most ridiculous on the internet

is the download link working?

The top left photo is the "pillow" lock that wigan was famous for. Karl had mentioned Billy Joyce being very good with that hold and the leg figure 4 sleeper, known as the triangle choke in BJJ. I always found dynamite's description of karl as a "big headed bastard" to be amusing

Well it's an assumption this was our Ian because a) Ian was known in North America at the time because he worked there, b) he had been included in the North American ratings earlier in the decade. Like The Wrestler ratings they probably bore little resemblance to reality. Ricky Starr? Curtis Iaukea? You're right, of course, but I reckon this is our Ian.

If that was our Ian Campbell then Hack, I would have to question the accuracy of the Ring ratings, including Ian Campbell in 9th place in the world ratings but not including Billy Robinson in the top 20? As the ratings are 52 years old now, it is probably a bit too late for me to write a letter of complaint to Ring Magazine about this though lol.

Yes that would be our Ian John.

Hi Saxon Wolf, thank you for that, it was an interesting read. By the way, there is an Ian Campbell listed in the Ring Heavyweight ratings in the article, would that be our Scottish Ian Campbell, I wonder?

I once heard that Karl Gotch first turned up at Riley's Gym in Wigan as an ex-Olympic wrestler who was very confident he could out-wrestle anyone there but all the Wigan wrestlers handled him easily. Gotch was shocked by this but decided to stay there so he could learn everything that Billy Riley had taught these wrestlers who had so easily beaten him. He did stay there for a few years and learnt everything that Billy Riley could teach and then he went on to be a great trainer himself.

Hi John

I think the story goes that Karl Gotch (who was an Olympic/Amateur wrestler, using his real name) wanted to learn the submission style, and went to Riley's gym, thinking he could learn it in a few weeks, and basically ended up staying for a few years.

Here is an interview with Karl Gotch from 1968, where he mentions Rileys Gym

http://www.puroresu.com/personalities/gotch_karl/article.html

Hi Debraco, I am a fan of Sayama/Tiger Mask/ Sammy Lee but you seem to know far more about him than I do. I had heard he had wrestled in Japan as a youngster, then wrestled in Florida, whilst being trained by Karl Gotch and then wrestled in Britain for a few months, having been recommended by Karl Gotch to the British wrestling promoters.

Karl Gotch, I have heard, had been trained by the legendary Billy Riley in Wigan and was one of his star pupils.

I would also be interested in the link to the magazine article you mentioned, if you can provide it to me?

I would be interested in seeing that Debraco, thanks.

I know he arrived at Joint Promotions via Karl Gotch, but always assumed that Gotch had trained him at the NJPW Dojo, and not in Florida, so it would be interesting (for me) to learn more.

Sayama had wrestled in japan since the mid seventies, like i said he was chosen to fight the WKA kickboxing North American Champion, and number one ranked world contender, marc costello in 1977 on the Benny the Jet Urquidez vs Okao card. He was wrestling for new japan and was deemed the scrappiest one there, so he put in two weeks at kenji kurosaki's meijiro gym prior to the fight. To have the balls to step into the ring with the #1 contender with only 2 weeks of formal muay thai training is impressive. He technically wasn't supposed to suplex costello, but in the heat of the moment the instincts took i reckon. It immediately confirmed my suspicions on the inevitable clinch and what would happen to the boxer in such an instance. I believe not long after he moved to florida and that's how he ended up in joint promotions, through karl gotch, with whom he was staying with while in florida. I just recently scanned his introduction to shooting magazine special edition from 1986 and can give a link if anyone wants it, or if there's anywhere here to upload i could also do that if anyone wants it. It is tangentially related to British wrestling since his training traces back to billy riley

Yes Debraco, you are right Tiger Mask was also the NWA Junior Heavyweight Champion at one tine, so he and The Dynamite Kid would have met, even if Dynamite had been wrestling solely for the NWA. However, I am sure that The Dynamite Kid's career would definitely have taken a considerably different course to what it did if he had beaten Nelson Royal in 1978 to become the NWA Champion.

I like your phrase 'mind blowing' about watching Dynamite v Sayama matches. When I watched wrestling as a kid, starting in 1977, there were many great wrestlers about but The Dynamite Kid was the one wrestler who 'blew my mind' when I watched him, he was amazing. It was over three years later in late 1980 before I saw another wrestler who 'blew my mind' and that was a young Japanese wrestler called Sammy Lee, who had just started wrestling in Britain. In April 1981 Sammy Lee suddenly disappeared from British wrestling and it later turned out that Sammy Lee was Satoru Sayama and he had moved back to Japan to wrestle as The Tiger Mask and his first match in Japan was against none other than The Dynamite Kid!

It probably was inevitable that the two best junior heavyweights in the world would have met each other in the end, one way or another.

By the way, this is also the longest conversation I've had in years as well lol.

he would have still faced tigermask, as he was the nwa jr heavyweight champion a few years later. Sayama actually held both the nwa and wwf jr heavyweight belts concurrently. It was a nightmare for promoters as dynamite was the only one who had any chance at all to legitimately beat him if he had went rogue and had refused to drop. Dan hodge had already suffered a broken neck and was retired. Seeing dynamite and sayama both in the 70's changed my life. Sayama when he suplexed marc costello, the #1 ranked wka middleweight, on his head during one of the undercard matches on the benny the jet vs okao card, and dynamite with his no handed kip ups, "snappy" moves and matwork. At the time it was mind blowing seeing dynamite going tit for tat with sayama and giving as good as he got in their matches, doing a lot of things western wrestlers had never done before. this is the longest conversation i've had in years. thank you.

Hi Debraco, yes it is quite possible that Stu Hart also played a part in Dynamite not becoming the NWA Junior Heavyweight Champion, as he realised he would lose some control over his new young star, a young wrestler who I am sure he hoped would be making a lot of money for him in future years.

I started watching wrestling in the summer of 1977 and The Dynamite Kid was one of the first wrestlers I saw on TV and I was amazed at how fast and skilful he was. At the age of 18, he was already the British Lightweight Champion. I was very upset when he left Britain to go to wrestle in Canada in April 1978.

If Dynamite had moved to the St Louis area, I am sure that he would have done very well. Who knows how his future life would have gone? Maybe he would have stayed in the NWA and never have wrestled Tiger Mask in Japan and become part of the WWF Tag Team Champions. Maybe he would have stayed in the NWA and become a regular opponent of Ric Flair, Harley Race, Sting, The Road Warriors etc?

On the other hand, stu really wanted a "legitimate" world title based out of Calgary and stampede, however, i also think he probably, and rightfully feared that dynamite would be snatched up and ensconced in St Louis by Sam Munchnik. St Louis was the "seat" of the NWA at the time, and had always been a big draw for legitimate old-time great head busters like john pesek, stan zbyszko, joe stecher and ed lewis. In whose company billington definitely belonged

indeed they did, it was nelson dropping the title which was squashed, leroy was already all but advertising dynamite as the jr heavyweight champion and the best thing since sliced bread just prior. In fact there was a late 70's dynamania that stretched from Louisiana to Alaska, with leroy promoting louisiana, arkansas and southern mo and stu with Mt, alberta, the yukon and BC. I remember adverts with just dynamites picture posed with his arms crossed and the words "i'm coming". I've always suspected that stu might have had a hand in nixing the title switch also, as he realized he had lightning in a bottle and didn't really want to share it with the entire NWA, which he would have had to do with the strap on billington

I believe that Nelson Royal and the Dynamite Kid did have a series of bouts with each other in 1978, not long after the Dynamite Kid had left the U.K. I have heard that it was planned for the Dynamite Kid to beat Nelson Royal in a title match and become the NWA Junior Heavyweight Champion but this plan was shelved, as Nelson Royal was apparently reluctant to drop his world title to someone who was only 20 years old in December 1978.

The Dynamite Kid then went on to have a series of great bouts for the WWF Junior Heavyweight Title instead, with firstly Tatsumi Fujinami and then The Tiger Mask. Davey Boy Smith, Bret Hart, The Cobra (George Takano) and The Black Tiger (Mark Rocco) later joined in this series of bouts for the WWF Junior Heavyweight Title, making a lot of money for the promoters.

The NWA probably made the wrong decision not allowing the Dynamite Kid to become their champion.

I remember Dynamite being hyped where i live in southern missouri as the next NWA jr hw champion, the promoter who handled the jr hw's for the NWA, leroy mcguirk, had some kind of problem with Nelson Royal and nelson refused to drop it to dynamite, stu hart decided he didn't want to instigate some huge war so the idea was shelved. Like dynamite, nelson was a very good legitimate wrestler. The promoter, mcguirk, was a former national folk(lancashire) champion here in the states

Did Dynamite win one of the 'auld' local KOs, I specifically mean The Belle Vue Trophy???

Steinborn actually beat Dynamite for one of the Stampede titles. I would say this was simply a grand tale of things happening far away.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was made up.

When I moved to Birmingham mid 1970s I started going to the wrestling at Digbeth. Wryton were the promoters and Max Crabtree was running the shows by then. I was shocked when I bought the programmes to find some of the articles I had written seven or eight years earlier for Morrell programmes. What was really annoying was that they had been altered to try and bring them up to date and the changes made them even more nonsensical and inaccurate than the originals. Even more annoying was that I didn't get paid again!

Steinborn and DK wrestled a few times in 1980 in Canada, still can't see anything for California, so will assume they made that bit up!

I think this must be the writer of the magazine article making something up, as I agree with Ost, I can't see Steinborn anywhere in California in 1978, and no reference of DK being there either.

Nelson Royal was world Junior Heavyweight title in that time period and the two did have several matches for the title, but there was no switch.

Dick Steinborn was World Junior heavyweight champion for the WWC promotion in Puerto Rico around this timeframe. Can find him wrestling in Tennessee and Texas in 1978, but not California.

I don't recall that at all from DK's autobiography and feel sure he would have mentioned it, will have to go and look again.

Great wrestler.

Are you sure he was in California in 1978?, I am sure he was in Canada, and the titles was created for him (Stampede, British Commonwealth Mid-Heavyweight)

There was a league that stood alone when it came to wrestling and very few wrestlers could reach it. Kendo was there as was Rocco and people like Adrian Street. The Dynamite kid was right in there. Amazing wrestler.