TITLES GALORE FOR DYNAMITE KID!!

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The Dark side of the rings dynamite episode just aired this week if anyone wasn't aware

Well, they are both 230+ page books. To explain a little more for anyone who might not understand. Satoru Sayama, AKA Sammy Lee, AKA the original Tigermask, he of the legendary matches with Tom Billington, left pro wrestling to found a completely legitimate athletic all-in wrestling competition, he called "shooting", the name taken from the nomenclature used for a legitimate match between professionals. All matches for the first years were all amateur contests, with the "shooters" being ranked upon ability and experience, such as a class c beginner wouldn't be thrown to the wolves to face a class A experienced athlete. He changed the name to Shooto to avoid confusion with the firearm shooting sports.

Sounds good, is that something that could be cut and pasted onto here, as its own post, or section?

i've since scanned both the 1986 "introduction to the technical shooting fight" and the follow up from 1989, "Advanced Shooting: The road to pankration" if anyone wants a pdf.

Sing along with Sammy! Sayama was so over that he had hit records in Japan. I'm sure Dynamite could have also, if he were so inclined.

The hoops for the gallery have to take the cake as the most ridiculous on the internet

is the download link working?

The top left photo is the "pillow" lock that wigan was famous for. Karl had mentioned Billy Joyce being very good with that hold and the leg figure 4 sleeper, known as the triangle choke in BJJ. I always found dynamite's description of karl as a "big headed bastard" to be amusing

Well it's an assumption this was our Ian because a) Ian was known in North America at the time because he worked there, b) he had been included in the North American ratings earlier in the decade. Like The Wrestler ratings they probably bore little resemblance to reality. Ricky Starr? Curtis Iaukea? You're right, of course, but I reckon this is our Ian.

If that was our Ian Campbell then Hack, I would have to question the accuracy of the Ring ratings, including Ian Campbell in 9th place in the world ratings but not including Billy Robinson in the top 20? As the ratings are 52 years old now, it is probably a bit too late for me to write a letter of complaint to Ring Magazine about this though lol.

Yes that would be our Ian John.

Hi Saxon Wolf, thank you for that, it was an interesting read. By the way, there is an Ian Campbell listed in the Ring Heavyweight ratings in the article, would that be our Scottish Ian Campbell, I wonder?

I once heard that Karl Gotch first turned up at Riley's Gym in Wigan as an ex-Olympic wrestler who was very confident he could out-wrestle anyone there but all the Wigan wrestlers handled him easily. Gotch was shocked by this but decided to stay there so he could learn everything that Billy Riley had taught these wrestlers who had so easily beaten him. He did stay there for a few years and learnt everything that Billy Riley could teach and then he went on to be a great trainer himself.

Hi John

I think the story goes that Karl Gotch (who was an Olympic/Amateur wrestler, using his real name) wanted to learn the submission style, and went to Riley's gym, thinking he could learn it in a few weeks, and basically ended up staying for a few years.

Here is an interview with Karl Gotch from 1968, where he mentions Rileys Gym

http://www.puroresu.com/personalities/gotch_karl/article.html

Hi Debraco, I am a fan of Sayama/Tiger Mask/ Sammy Lee but you seem to know far more about him than I do. I had heard he had wrestled in Japan as a youngster, then wrestled in Florida, whilst being trained by Karl Gotch and then wrestled in Britain for a few months, having been recommended by Karl Gotch to the British wrestling promoters.

Karl Gotch, I have heard, had been trained by the legendary Billy Riley in Wigan and was one of his star pupils.

I would also be interested in the link to the magazine article you mentioned, if you can provide it to me?

I would be interested in seeing that Debraco, thanks.

I know he arrived at Joint Promotions via Karl Gotch, but always assumed that Gotch had trained him at the NJPW Dojo, and not in Florida, so it would be interesting (for me) to learn more.

Sayama had wrestled in japan since the mid seventies, like i said he was chosen to fight the WKA kickboxing North American Champion, and number one ranked world contender, marc costello in 1977 on the Benny the Jet Urquidez vs Okao card. He was wrestling for new japan and was deemed the scrappiest one there, so he put in two weeks at kenji kurosaki's meijiro gym prior to the fight. To have the balls to step into the ring with the #1 contender with only 2 weeks of formal muay thai training is impressive. He technically wasn't supposed to suplex costello, but in the heat of the moment the instincts took i reckon. It immediately confirmed my suspicions on the inevitable clinch and what would happen to the boxer in such an instance. I believe not long after he moved to florida and that's how he ended up in joint promotions, through karl gotch, with whom he was staying with while in florida. I just recently scanned his introduction to shooting magazine special edition from 1986 and can give a link if anyone wants it, or if there's anywhere here to upload i could also do that if anyone wants it. It is tangentially related to British wrestling since his training traces back to billy riley

Yes Debraco, you are right Tiger Mask was also the NWA Junior Heavyweight Champion at one tine, so he and The Dynamite Kid would have met, even if Dynamite had been wrestling solely for the NWA. However, I am sure that The Dynamite Kid's career would definitely have taken a considerably different course to what it did if he had beaten Nelson Royal in 1978 to become the NWA Champion.

I like your phrase 'mind blowing' about watching Dynamite v Sayama matches. When I watched wrestling as a kid, starting in 1977, there were many great wrestlers about but The Dynamite Kid was the one wrestler who 'blew my mind' when I watched him, he was amazing. It was over three years later in late 1980 before I saw another wrestler who 'blew my mind' and that was a young Japanese wrestler called Sammy Lee, who had just started wrestling in Britain. In April 1981 Sammy Lee suddenly disappeared from British wrestling and it later turned out that Sammy Lee was Satoru Sayama and he had moved back to Japan to wrestle as The Tiger Mask and his first match in Japan was against none other than The Dynamite Kid!

It probably was inevitable that the two best junior heavyweights in the world would have met each other in the end, one way or another.

By the way, this is also the longest conversation I've had in years as well lol.

he would have still faced tigermask, as he was the nwa jr heavyweight champion a few years later. Sayama actually held both the nwa and wwf jr heavyweight belts concurrently. It was a nightmare for promoters as dynamite was the only one who had any chance at all to legitimately beat him if he had went rogue and had refused to drop. Dan hodge had already suffered a broken neck and was retired. Seeing dynamite and sayama both in the 70's changed my life. Sayama when he suplexed marc costello, the #1 ranked wka middleweight, on his head during one of the undercard matches on the benny the jet vs okao card, and dynamite with his no handed kip ups, "snappy" moves and matwork. At the time it was mind blowing seeing dynamite going tit for tat with sayama and giving as good as he got in their matches, doing a lot of things western wrestlers had never done before. this is the longest conversation i've had in years. thank you.