W N A title and belt holders.

Dear Paul bkendo1 does this belt look familiar to you?

Thanks, R

Thankyou so much Ron Historyo , i think the only very old wrestlers i used to see and train with down at the club were Bob Greenalgh ( The Bearded Monk ) and Jim Foy ( Elmo ) I i was not on the mat and messing about and jim was around you were getting his walking stick round the head hahaha

Have you a photo Jonathan ?????

Wow thankyou so much. Weird thing is I wrestled for bolton Olympic wrestling club from being six and after I left school I was gonna take up pro I trained with Rob Brookside for a while then just discovered beer and women lol and gave it up. Thanks so much sir.

Thought I would find Grogan in his home town of Bolton. Two poor images as they are not from digital newspapers but the library with poor viewers. Both 1936 working for local man William Isherwood who converted an old Iron Foundry into a stadium but had to give it back for the war effort.

Hi buddy I was born farnworth too. I will see if we can find a picture I don't know much about him myself twas just I was passing his old collery house and asked got talking to the gent that lived there now. When I used to watch the wwf as a kid when Lord Alfred would come on telly my mum would say that's Al Hayes he was always round at my grandads I will see if I can get a pic never seen a pic before so I was hoping same. See what I can do. Hey thanks

Jonathan , working off your info , indeed James Grogan was a Colliery worker and a deputy at the colliery in 1939. Home address 80 Ash Grove Walkden.

He seems to have been born next door in Farnworth , son of a colliery worker.

Can't find him wrestling after the war and really I don't think we know much about him. On this thread I have managed to find him on the Preston Bills and New Brighton and of course the promoters will elaborate on any fame or titles as a selling point , in particular Oakeley who promoted at the Tower , New Brighton.

After the war I don't think they ever pushed Bantam weight again but there was plenty of wrestling in the war such as at Belle Vue , but it stopped in Bolton and I think Preston. Would love to hear more from you about the man , maybe a photo ?

Wow fantastic. He used to train wrestlers too my uncle just said they would stay over at bolton he lived at the house on Lahore by the canal he was also pit manager. He also trained Lord Alfred Hayes. Hey thankyou I would love more info

Couple of great memories of Jimmy Grogan here at New Brighton. World Bantam Champion even.

hello, i believe the Jimmy Grogan wrestler was my great grandfather, also i think there was one of them belts on show in a jewellers and coin shop in the daubhill area of bolton, i remember seeing one similar inside the shop in a frame.

Paul, in your original post you have mentioned the WNA title holders, namely: Burke of Tyldesley, Woods of Farnworth and a Grogan of Walkden and the silver belts given to them which were manufactured by Berry a Bolton jeweller. By any chance do you have a photo of any of those 3 champs with WNA belt on?

I wonder if these middleweight tournaments gave Brian Dixon the idea for the 7 bout KO tournaments for the World Middleweight Title at places including Liverpool Stadium in 1978 and 1979?

I know why the tickets for matches at Wryton Stadium were available from the Top Bull in Breightmet as I believe Vic Hessle/Mr Faulkner senior was landlord there.

(I lived in Breightmet during the early/mid 90's when I was Minister at Breightmet Methodist Church (now sadly closed).

I wonder what the connection with the Woolshop on Bradshawgate (in Bolton Town Centre) was? Maybe one of the ladies of the family worked there?

Ruslan there were several incarnations of The Wryton Belt tourneys only one sticks in my mind and that was won by Keith Martinelli who to my mind was one of the hardest lads in the game.

Paul, by any chance could you please help to find out who won this multi-month tourney called Wryton Middleweight Belt October 1972- May 1973 (also referred to as Annual Wryton Belt), I am assuming it was the same trophy you saw in 1971 at the Wryton office.

I had to post a VERY WELL DONE to those that contributed to this subject. Riveting stuff! There are so any aspects as well as sub-sections 1 to 100 in wrestling history, so much so that I’ve never delved into the murky world of promoters to any great degree. Nor have I been swayed by the siren call of Championship Belts (aside from their aged beauty) but I lift my hat off to those that do and say please keep up the great work!

p.s. Steve Wright is a great favorite of mine and his matches on the ’Tube, especially the ones in Japan need to be seen by anyone who values pro wrestling.

Paul, could you please ask that person who shared with you info about the WNA belts to share with you a photo of wrestler with the WNA belt. I hope they have it and won't mind you sharing it here. It has been a mystery for so long. Wryton Belt was around forever (1940-1970) and no one could identify it. We are finally getting close to the answers, thanks to you for that.

Paul, hi, thanks again, answered, and added more photos, have a look. It is in reply to your reply to my question, Page 1 of this thread.

Talking of Arthur Wright taking over from Jack Cullen , here is the time frame and the earliest I have evidence of Wryton. May 1942 Jack Cullen promoting at Hanley at the Skating Rink but that was to finish soon with Wryton moving into the Victoria Hall by August. I don't know about a buy out , Cullen soldiered on for about a year but the Ice rink seemed doomed.

Great stuff, very interesting.

Not sure if we have made this connection but Lawrence Wright was Arthur Lawrence Wright.

In checking this I noticed that Norman Morrell won a Libel against him in 1946 that cost Wright £75.

Bad Blood ...I wonder.

Wright buying Cullen out makes sense to me , their rosters looked so similar.

Wrights address in 1946 was High Street Manchester,

Cullen lived in Atherton

Thanks for the information about the office too - very grateful.

It will probably never happen, but I would love it there was ever to be a history of Wryton Promotions written.

That era when Joint Promotions was genuinely an association of different promoters with their own distinct styles, halls and businesses is genuinely fascinating.

That period in the late 1950s and the 1960s seems to have been the real boom period when a credible style of professional wrestling that didn't insult the intelligence of the fans was presented. It seems to have become far more bland and homogenous the more that Joint Promotions, rather than the individual promoters, were running the business.

By the time I started watching in 1978 the excitement was more to be found in the independent rings - especially Brian Dixon's. Joint Promotions still had some excellent wrestlers - many of whom switched to the independents in the early and mid 80's.

I can't help wishing I had been watching in the 1960's, a period I have only had tantalising glimpses of through the little available footage there is.

Once again we come back to the "if only" ITV would open up its 1960s wrestling archive.

Fascinating to learn about those early belts and their significance.

Many thanks to all the experts and their research.

Fascinating, Bkendo. Are we to assume that Lawrence Wright is Arthur Wright and that Mr Cunliffe is the gentleman who became Count Bartelli?

In answer to 1978 the office at Wryton was not used at the time when Rusholme Northenden and Shudehill were,the stadium was the training centre for many including Eddie,we were put through are paces by Cadman Atherton and others.

Sorry for the delay in replying,but I didn't want to unless I had a clear picture,however I haven't but I do have more information.firstly Ruslan that belt photo gave me shivers it's almost certainly the one I discovered at higher bridge Street. I'll list things I have had corraberated but not sure they don't pose more questions than they answer,firstly the WNA appears to be a precursor to Wryton amazingly WNA belts and tournaments were held at Altrincham not only local halls at tyldesley Atherton Farnworth Westhoughton and Hindley.Just up the road from Westhoughton open air catch was held at Cutacre Little Hulton and betting took place ,several lads were approached by a syndicate of businessman with a view to promoting on a larger scale,now my informant is a lady of great age and some details were muddled and as her grandfather took the bets she was reluctant for me to acknowledge her help.Her grandfather was approached by three potential backers. One was a pitman from Atherton who was being backed by a mill Ower in Farnworth area and a farmer from Congleton. Manchester business man included Lawrence Wright? Albert Kenton,both in the fent trade and also apublican from Stoke and there developers or trainers were from Crewe and Kidsgrove.Niwvwas the pitman Cullen.Cullen lost larger halls at Leigh and miners hall to promoters Lawrence Wright who by name was working with a local mill owner called Partington.im sure youre all asleep by now I'll endeavour to clarify when I can.Other points the lady remembers a softly spoken man she met who was called Cunliffe and appeared to work for Lawrence Wright,could this be Arthur and Geoff.i think Ted Berley had an alliance formed in early days possibly after Cullen it waned with the Crabtree era.

Very good Ruslan. Very poetic.

Yeah, but what about the chimleys Ruslan?

Thanks Ruslan. Presumably James Reid is Jim Reid who went on to work professionally alongside his brother. H.Hough was Harry Hough from Bolton. There was a Frank Hough professional, but don't know if Harry did any pro work. I like the phot Ruslan. I've always been partial to a nice chimney, or chimley as we called them. From my bedroom window when I was a child I could see 14 chimleys.

BKendo, I am really looking forward to your promised details on the origins of Wryton. One question, did they run the office from Wryton Stadium in Bolton rather than South Manchester?

Paul, Ron, Hack, this is that silver belt with roses Reid and Gregory held such belts when both were amateur wrestlers it was called LCAWA CHAMPIONSHIP.

The A-Z write up on Ted seems very accurate with him in the forces in 1940.

His earliest venues were Hanley and Chester which points to Hack's link with Wryton. Similar in Fact to Bartelli. Was wrestling from about 1941.

Ruslan, your research of vintage belts that made it through to the 1960s and 1970s is formidable. You've made many posts on these belts through the years. It would be interesting if you brought your findings together in one article for the site.

SaxonWolf, I don't know the answer to your question but when Ted was promoting in the 1960s there seemed a link between him and Wryton Promotions.

This actual leads me to a question I have wondered about for a long time; Ted Betley was well before my time, and all I know about him is that he was a former wrestler who trained some of the best young wrestlers we ever produced.

Who did he train them for?, did he work as a sort of scout/trainer for one of the promoters?

I think Dynamite Kid said that Ted never charged him for the training, he just had to help out in Ted's fruit and vegetable shop, something like that. I think he also said that when he first had a go at wrestling, it was in a ring with another young lad, so did Ted have his own ring?, did he rent it out? (is that how he made some extra money?).

I think he appeared on TV at the end of the Marty Jones and Bull Blitzer (Steve Wright) match on World of Sport.

So what do we know about him?

Promoter , it says was Jack Cullen so I don't think Wryton.

Ron, this is from your collection.

Hanley 1942, I am assuming "early Wryton" or "pre-Wryton".

Beech is the gold belt holder.

Wow, so Steve Wright is pictured in a belt worn by Tom Connors!

I wonder if Steve Wright still has that belt?

Super piece of detective work

Dear Paul, hello and thanks so much for your reply and for all the details appreciate. I do have few questions, though.

1. Now my memory of an old silver belt with red roses bordering the centre which lay in the old office at Wryton Stadium.

Would it be this belt??...you see it is sterling silver and you see Lancashire's red roses around the centre.

2. Westhoughton Nursing Association Belt, or Jack Alker Gold Belt. First known since 1932, to the best of my knowledge of course.

Jim Lewis and Fred Woolley both of Manchester worn it as well.

W.N.A belt reference. Jack Harrison is Billy Beach Sr.

3. The Mysterious Ted Betley Belt which he used as British Open Championship for Steve Wright. Now we know for sure that IT WAS NOT A WRYTON BELT (thanks to you Paul).

TOM CONNOR (1908) AND STEVE WRIGHT (1971).

I've just looked in the A to Z

Ginger Burke

Ginger Burke from Tyldesley near Wigan has been a forgotten man. At the start of modern wrestling in 1930 the first lightweight champion was Harold Angus who through the decade moved up the weights. Ginger had reputedly been a pro footballer and so may not have started wrestling until 1934. He should not be confused with 12 year old Boy Burke from Tyldesley who wrestled as a schoolboy at Preston in 1935 By 1935 Ginger Burke was being billed as the lightweight champion of Britain, a trail blazed ready for George Kidd and Johnny Saint later. During the war he still wrestled but was also a Sergeant in the Royal Engineers , if advertisements can be believed. Last sighted in 1949.

Grogan would have been Jimmy Grogan of Walkden and these marvellous bills help us get a timeline on all this. Note again Ginger Burke in the same company.

Not boring at all bkendo. Fascinating information.

You would expect them to be related as of Tyldesley , there was also a Ginger Burke of the same town holder of the British Lightweight championship , one of a few to get that honour after Harold Angus moved up to Welterweight.

Ginger Burke wrestled up to at least 1949 and could well be the man Paul mentions.

But what is that relationship , Dad ? Brother ? Uncle ?

Belts also mentioned on this bill.

Really interesting Paul and the names were so familiar especially Burke that this is the first thing I found about him. Wrestling at 12 years old and indeed of Tyldesley.

That's really interesting, thanks Paul. I wonder if Martin Conroy had an idea to use these old belts later in a promotional angle but the belts were too fragile to be used.