WALSH OR MARINO TO FACE THESZ FOR WORLD TITLE-1957!

The British wrestling magazines of the time covered wrestling news & names from around the globe, which was smart as quite a lot of those names did end up visiting the UK.

I knew about Lou Thesz from wrestling magazines too, Ray.

"...Fascinating, a shame we shall never really know..."

Agreed, Anglo!

Looks like Orford, Portz and Marino all got draws, the rest were won by Thesz.

Thesz would have only been 41 in 1957, so I don't think he would have been overly worried by taking on riskier young wrestlers (if he was as good at defending himself from any double cross as people claim).

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Fair point, Saxonwolf but I remain surprised that "mere" results would form part of any contract. Surely it was all about money and logistics.

If your theory is correct, this means all his opponents had to be 100% sure not to double-cross. So by exclusion we can perhaps see which other late fifties heavyweights were excluded as opponents: Mitchell, B. Joyce, Gwyn Davies, young Billy Robinson. Maybe these chaps were considered risky.

Fascinating, a shame we shall never really know.

Studying The Ost's interesting list, it's surprising that the promoters would want the top local heavies all to lose to Thesz. Very disciplined of them. Looks like Marino's draw is the highlight for home talent. No worries about Johnny Foreigner (Singh) succumbing, but guys like Walsh and Portz who had great credibility? And no "funny" bouts with giants or masks or tag; credit to Jack Pye for being the sole villain to get a look in.

Twelve years later, Jean Ferre would demolish all-comers on his first tour but then lose to almost everyone on his subsequent visits. I'm wondering if there had been a faint thought he might stay in the UK, but by the second tour it was clear he had other plans, hence his downfall,

I've probably asked this before, but how well-known would Lou Thesz have been, to the average Wrestling fan over here?, I assume that he was well known to be booked on so many shows, but this would have relied on lots and lots of people reading Wrestling magazines, I guess?

Confirmation the Thesz show was 14th as mentioned earlier, here's the advert.

Your list seems in agreement with the Heritage list except for:

I have doubts about the listing at Leicester on 24th December. Morrell put on wrestling at Cossington Street baths on 20th December as usual, I can't find any advert for 24th. It wasn't at the DeMontfort hall either as they had a dance on.

I think the undated December Liverpool against Bolo (Bula?) is erroneous. The Liverpool matches were well advertised and there's no sign of this one.

Also, whilst going to grab the advert for your missing Aberdeen show I found that it had been called off.

Here's what I have - feel free to question or confirm:

November 20th, 1957 – Grimsby, England: Thesz v Baldwin – seems erroneous

December 11th, 1957 – London, England [Royal Albert Hall]: Lou Thesz d Dara Singh in a World Heavyweight title match

December 13th, 1957 – Liverpool, England: Lou Thesz bt Jack Pye;

December 14th, 1957 – Brighton, England: Thesz bt Verna;

December 16th, 1957 – Leeds, England: Lou Thesz bt Dai Sullivan;

December 17th, 1957 – Hull, England [Madeley Street Baths]: Lou Thesz bt Jack Pye;

December 18th, 1957 – Grimsby, England: Lou Thesz vs Ernie Baldwin for International Title

December 19th, 1957 – Nottingham, England [Victoria Baths]: Lou Thesz bt Norman Walsh to retain the World Heavyweight title

December 20th, 1957 – Rotherham, England: Lou Thesz drew Sandy Orford;

December 21st, 1957 – Middlesbrough, England: Lou Thesz bt Norman Walsh

December 22nd, 1957 – Brighton, England: Lou Thesz bt Bill Verna – seems erroneous

December 23rd, 1957 – Hanley, England: Lou Thesz 1-1 Mike Marino

December 24th, 1957 – Leicester, England: Lou Thesz d Geoff Portz (1-1, 15 five minute rounds)

Date unknown, December, 1957 – Liverpool, England: Lou Thesz drew Great Bolo

February 7th, 1958 – Leicester, England [Cossington St Baths]: Lou Thesz (c ) vs Geoff Portz for the World heavyweight title

February 8th, 1958 – Newcastle, England: Thesz bt Sandy Orford;

February 11th, 1958 – Hull, England: Thesz v Portz;

February 15th, 1958 – Middlesbrough, England: Lou Thesz bt Geoff Portz

February 18th, 1958 – Bournemouth, England: Thesz kod Sandy Orford

Look Like I am missing these ones from your lists:

12/12/1957 Blackburn Norman Walsh M&B

13/02/1958 Barrow Norman Walsh Relwyskow & Green Promotions

25/02/1958 Aberdeen Bill Verna Relwyskow & Green Promotions

Thanks Ron. Yes I agree Blackburn was 12th December. I have added 16th.

December 22nd in Ray's lists is incorrect. It was the 14th as this was the last show of the year, on 21st December was the start of Cinderella.

One for Hack , I can see a report that stated on 5th December 1957 Thesz was to wrestle Walsh at Blackburn next week. A quick check shows wrestling on Thursdays and I think this must equate to 12th Dec 1957. Yet another Walsh/Thesz match

Also 16th Dec 1957 beat Dai Sullivan at Leeds....source Plunkett Index.

Down for Bill Verna at Brighton on 22nd Dec.

We have them on 14th at Brighton as well. If it was a return note different day of week. Is this reliable.!!!!

Thank you MM. At my age you just have to keep plodding on.

Lots of slight niggles.

You are Welcome BERNARD!

Hope you are Keeping Well?!

MM

Thanks MM.

It was surprising to me that Norman had so many goes with Thesz.

I knew that he had a couple but four!

Must have been what they call "A safe pair of hands"

At the time, one of Morrell's top men.

A good find Ron, now added to the Lou Thesz page on Heritage.

This addition makes Norman Walsh the most frequent opponent of Lou Thesz in our currently known listings.

Norman Walsh 4 Geoff Portz 3 Sandy Orford 3 Bill Verna Jack Pye 2 Dara Singh 1 Ernest Baldwin 1 Mike Marino 1

It would be wrong to think all Lou's title matches were for Relwyskow and Green. He defended his title on promotions by all the Joint Promotion members.

Details of all known Lou Thesz UK matches

I'd be grateful if The Ost (and anyone else with records access) could check for any additions - there are almost certainly more out there.

Ron's latest addition, Barrow Public Hall, must have been a culture shock for Thesz, familiar with big American venues.

https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/nooks-and-crannies-barrow-in-furness

what a fantastic post. thank you. Thesz title existed only in his own very realm of mind. Outside that small and very isolated area...no one heard of it. I suppose he just did what others before him when they lost their American regalia. Travel to Europe (or Japan) call yourself a champ (better come with some sort of physical belt, fans love it)...and yeah obviously the matchmakers were Relws-Green, they were in charge of the international titles in JP. again thank you. made my day.

Bernard! Norman!

Possibly an unknown show not in our records.

Here’s Rudi’s picture for the A-Z. Like Adrian, who was Caris, also Plumbley , was Jan, Piet? (Also no pic. of Malloy in the A-Z). Does Adrian have one in his ‘magic cabinet’?

Good thinking Ost.

Blackburn was usually Thursday.

That was 12th.

No Worries OSTY!

So SAME Bout-No Doubt!-at least Twice?

And Many Thanx HACK!

MM

Thanks MM I didn't have this one. Yes 21st at Middlesbrough. I believe 19th was Nottingham.

So NOT at MIDDLESBROUGH then-As Stated on My Programme HACK??

MM

Yes it did, on 21st December, and Thesz won

https://wrestlingheritage.co.uk/lou-thesz/