I recently watched a BW film, Good Time Girl, featuring a familiar looking black actor.
Googling around he turned out to be Orlando Martins. A prolific actor, actually, amongst Britain's top 15 favourite actors of 1947.
Googling him I was surpised to see he was chiefly an actor who worked, seemingly only on the side, as wrestler Black Butcher Johnson.
Since history has it that Black Butcher was the brother of Johnny Kwango, it's fair to assume they shared parents.
Orlando Martins' father was Brazilian.
Which makes Johnny Kwango Brazilian.
Not sure if my trail is 100% watertight but it really does surprise me.
did the wild man of borneo ever have a Brazilian, I am asking for a friend
Ron your research is exemplary yet again, all very interesting stuff you've uncovered.
We give wrestlers no leniency on telling tall tales yet this actor goes off scot-free. What's to say he just told a fib and it made print? Who was going to verify it?
Gent's, just to be clear, I am just researching for this stuff, I don't know any of this for a fact. It's an interesting story though. We must have all seen Orlando in many films without knowing his name, me anyway.
"So he was doing his wrestling previously and in the twenties. I can't see any reason to disbelieve that Orlando wrestled as Black Butcher Johnson. In which case he was the first to wrestle with that name."
I don't think anyone has disagreed with this.
Saxonwolf has told us Orlando didn't wrestle when he was an actor: "....he built his reputation as that of Nigeria's greatest living actor, he would not have wanted to tarnish that image, by wrestling for a few quid here and there"
So he was doing his wrestling previously and in the twenties. I can't see any reason to disbelieve that Orlando wrestled as Black Butcher Johnson. In which case he was the first to wrestle with that name.
In fact, maybe Orlando had made such a good go of it and was doing so well, that, when he abandoned wrestling for acting, Arthur jumped on the already established reputation.
I wonder where their contemporary Norman the Butcher fits in in terms of creating his name?
No, Anglo. What I'm saying is that chances are Orlando used the name in the circus in the 1920s. If he did continue to do jobs in the 1930s to supplement his acting career then it is then that a few unscrupulous promoters might have billed him as such to cash in on the growing popularity that Arthur Howe had been building up since 1932.
What I don't understand in your logic, Hack is why a promoter would have been unscrupulous to use the name Black Butcher Johnson in the twenties if this was years before Arthur ever wrestled?
A thorough commentary on Orlando, but no mention of wrestling
do me a favour the photo in the book looks nothing like Johnny or Cyril.
Here is reference to Orlando as a wrestler in the 1920s, maybe this is what SaxonWolf found
Ron odd request but was Johnny middle name Albert it's bugged for me for years yet another thing I didntbquerybat the time.
The "Brazilian" part of all this, I am still looking in to.
"...Martins was born in 1899 in Lagos to Emmanuel Akinola Martins and Paula Idowu Soares. His paternal grandfather was a liberated Portuguese slave..."
Portugal and Brazil share a common language, but does this mean that Martins grandfather was Portuguese and also a slave, or does it mean he was a slave in Brazil?
Anglo, I think you do have to change the title of the thread, because Johnny Kwango was not Brazilian.
Read what I said Anglo and you'll see I didn't rule out the possibility of Orlando using the name BBJ. On the contrary I said he may have used it before Arthur Howe or even "occasional substitution or use by an unscrupulous promoter cannot be ruled out." But the idea that Orlando had any sustained run as BBJ seems as authentic as a Jackie Pallo walkout.
A snapshot of the brothers
Thanks Ron, you have resolved the genetics. And the original title of the thread, which now seems in need of an edit.
Hack's defence of everything he has always held true has provoked his comments: "the continuous run of the BBJ name from 1932 onwards suggest he [Orlando] was not Black Butcher Johnson in the pro ring."
But the other research shows Orlando wrestling as BBJ in the twenties. The name was his. Copied by others.
To cast aspersions about the validity of the biography - "this piece of information which may be partially or totally inaccurate" - just to force it churlishly into conforming with perceived wrestling history is as unscrupulous as any Jackie Pallo walk-out.
Open up.
No, I won't rename the thread after all because "Black Butcher Johnson's father was indeed Brazilian." In the same way yesterday I chose not churlishly to correct Graham for stating that Dave Barrie was Les Kellett's blood son.
We are in the world of wrestling where even empirical genetics are flexible.
As you say Ron, Orlando Martins and Johnny Kwango are not brothers, maybe they could have been cousins or related in some way?, it doesn't really matter, what is interesting is, could Orlando Martins have been the first person to use the name Black Butcher Johnson, and then someone (Arthur Howe) had to take over "the role" at short notice, because Orlando Martins film career took off?
Well here we go Anglo.
Kwango's mother Irene Bess became a Howe to yield Arthur Howe (BBJ)
She married again to Lagey to Yield Johnny Kwango.
She then married again in 1928 to Arthur Jerome.
That enabled me to trace her death to 1975 in Hampstead.
Now here is the important bit , she was born in 1887 making her too young really to be the mother of Orlando Martin.(Born 1899)
Orlando Martins seems to have had a solid film career, appearing in at least one movie a year, for an almost unbroken run of years, up to the 1960's. He was also a theatre actor. I don't see him being Black Butcher Johnson in those years, I think that for one, he would not be able to commit to dates, and two, as he built his reputation as that of Nigeria's greatest living actor, he would not have wanted to tarnish that image, by wrestling for a few quid here and there (even though we could consider wrestling and acting, almost the same thing).
If he was interviewed by the author, for his biography, he would have been around 83 years old at the time. We don't know if he said something about Black Butcher Johnson and the author thought he meant that he was Black Butcher Johnson, or maybe he said he wrestled as "Johnson" (Jack Knife Johnson?), and the author could only find the name "Black Butcher Johnson" pertaining to wrestling in the UK?
I am going to try and find more information, because it is an interesting subject.
The names Arthur Howe and Black Butcher Johnson were linked by May, 1937. Howe was one of three wrestlers accused of assaulting a member of the public who had entered the dressing room.
A Google brings up lots of references to the Nigerian film star Orlando Martins but follow any of them and they all lead back to the book referenced by SaxonWolf. So there seems only one source for this piece of information which may be partially or totally inaccurate.
Martins was a friend of Robert Adams, another actor and part time wrestler.
So, the background of circus, entertainment, wrestling fits in with the background of Howe and his family. It could well be that Martins wrestled as part of his circus routine in the 1920s, maybe he did use the name Black Butcher Johnson,(though that too could be an error in this one source) but his age, his acting commitments and the continuous run of the BBJ name from 1932 onwards suggest he was not Black Butcher Johnson in the pro ring. Certainly not in any serious sense, he occasional substitution or use by an unscrupulous promoter cannot be ruled out.
The original topic posed the question of where the BBJ name came from. Maybe we now know,
Great finish, drop-kicking himself out of the ring.
It's in Paris and if anything he seem's to have Masambula's wiry thighs. I mean, even the opponent's name is dodgy.
Tantalizingly grainy, isn't it?
Never heard him called Jack Knife Johnson , is this Butcher.
Orlando Martins appears uncredited in Doctor at Sea (1956 I think) and strongly resembles Kwango there.
That's fabulous digging, Saxonwolf. I may have a nose up in the air sniffing around for wrestling's secrets but you and Ron are truffle-finders in resourcefully digging deep to get to the bottom of wrestling's mysteries.
But Ron: "......for me Howe is more likely to be Kwango's brother." I hope this isn't based merely on the "facts" that we have been told up to now? I imagine our site is full of wrestling's untruths that we have gullibly swallowed. The more they insisted on a particular fact, the less likely it was to be true. Particularly in the cases of black wrestlers, the promoter's creativity and downright lying seemed to run wild.
young Johnny Kwango's brother in action... humour seemed to be part of family DNA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qNPFcAVXtk
In 1951 Orlando Martins was in a film "Where Vultures Fly"
He played the part of M'Kwongwi
He is Far right.
Orlando was born 1899 seemingly in Lagos.
Whilst Arthur Howe was born at the end of 1912.
As Orlando Martins was in films from 1935 and I assume into the 1940's would be earning good money , I would not of expected him to be wrestling after the 1930's.
Once Black Butchers pops up in 1932 there is no gap where one could take over so could have existed side by side.
But for me Howe is more likely to be Kwango's brother.
Johnny Kwango was wrestling in the late 1940's so unlikely he took the name from the film character and always thought it was a tribute to Jim Wango.
There does appear to be a biography, written two year before his death and this may be the source of the story of him being Black Butcher Johnson?
https://www.worldcat.org/title/orlando-martins-the-legend-an-intimate-biography-of-the-first-world-acclaimed-african-film-actor/oclc/679653713?referer=di&ht=edition
OK this is getting interesting, if correct, it appears that Orlando Martins wrestled as Black Butcher Johnson, in London, in the 1920's?
"...In 1920, Martins made his first theatrical appearance as a Nubian Slave, a role he later said he hated, but took it because “I was young and hungry and had no other choice”.
To survive in London, Martins took up a series of menial jobs, from working as a Porter to being a wrestler known as ‘Black Butcher Johnson’; he was a snake-charmer; night watchman; kitchen porter; road sweeper before finally making his debut in ‘If Youth But Knew’ in 1926. In 1928 he joined the Mississippi Chorus of the musical Show Boat at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, and later toured Britain with the production. ..."
I know this won't help but I recall some old Dales stalwarts including Charlie Fisher calling Johnny Albert the drummer I often wondered why Albert.
lest we forget, Arthur was a Nitwit
OK it looks like the information for this, is coming from a book written in 2001, called "Black in the British Frame: The Black Experience in British Film and Television" by Stephen Bourne.
If anyone has the book, it would be worth checking, as it appears to have a chapter on Orlando Martins, and would hopefully mention the sources for any information.
Orlando Martins does appear to have wrestled, but whether he was Black Butcher Johnson, or ever used that name, not sure yet. We should dig around and it is a great story, whether true or not.
Thanks Anglo Italian. I'm not convinced but I now understand where we are going with this.
Sure. But who stepped into the ring as Black Butcher Johnson? That's the point.
In my photo I think he looks very Kwangoesque.
I can think of no reason why anyone would invent that he wrestled as BBJ.
I wouldn't trust Wiki for wrestling knowledge. I would see if Ron can uncover anything. Black Butcher Johnson was pretty well-known even in the 30's, photos in sporting magazines etc.
No, Hack.
Two Black Butcher Johnson wrestlers. There were two Tiger Woods, two Gargantuas, two Steve Logans, two or more Exorcists. And numerous simultaneous Doctor Deaths. It looks like two guys wrestled simultaneously as Black Butcher Johnson, for reasons we don't know.
One the Arthur most seem to know.
The newly emerged one being Orlando Martins. Google Orlando's wiki, probably written by a movie buff in the know, clearly stating that Orlando wrestled as Black Butcher Johnson.
Quite possible they had a hunky-dory relationship where they took turns as wrestling as BBJ. Or Orlando stood in for Arthur at times, or for double-bookings.
In which case Orlando could have been Kwango's brother.
Maybe Anglo Italian is concluding two Black Butchers one the actor and one the wrestler. Re-reading this old thread I can't see any reason to conclude two Black Butcher Johnson wrestlers.
Butcher was around long before 1943 Main mask. He was very active in the 1930s, and here is the earliest reference I can find, twenty year old Butcher in 1932.
Two Black Butcher Johnsons?
As Main Mask would say: the thick plottens.
Orlando seems to have resembled Kwango much more than Arthur did.
Here is a thread from 2012 that covered all this.
https://www.wrestlingheritage.co.uk/apps/forums/topics/show/7391204
Orlando Martins wasn't the famous Black Butcher Johnson though.
Let's not forget, that The Duke Of Edinburgh, noticing Johnny billed as from West Africa asked 'what part'? Johnny thought for a bit then offered 'Barbados' (some reports say Jamaica) to which the Duke said incredulously 'But that's the West Indies'!
Oh, how embarrassing ! (but funny).
Agree with DJ Mask; I think they were half brothers, hence the rather large (I think) age discrepancy.
Although I’d heard of Black Butcher Johnson I hadn’t realise he was an actor. I believe Johnny Kwango and Butcher Johnson were half-brothers and shared the same Mother (Irene Howe).