Clearly he went on a good few years too long (and I've no doubt that there'll be a few of you who'll argue he should never have started to begin with!), but was there any point at which the blue-eyed version of Shirley could have hung up his boots without being held responsible for the decline of British wrestling?
The 1981 Wembley bout with Haystacks (despite its rubbish, flower-strewn finale) seems to have been the high watermark of his popularity - everything after that looks like diminishing returns.
Perhaps following his tag match partnered with Jim Moser .v. Haystacks and Bromley when he was due to step away from wrestling to present a Saturday morning ITV children's show with Isla St.Clair. By then his solo contests were virtually non existent and his tag routine was predictable.
By now gone were international tag opponents, and without sounding too unkind in came huge ungainly men with little experience, who no one had ever heard of or seen before. In 1979 when Shirley defeated Mighty John Quinn (a favourite of mine) i was 13, i thought it a was tremendous victory. Only to be massively deflated by Daddy's showdown with Haystacks two years later.
A wrestling website called something like "britishwrestlingarchive" collated Shirley's Big Daddy era contests which suggested he faced virtually every British heavyweight around during that era in solo contests up until 1978 when his tag career took off. During his solo bouts he actually lost quite a few contests as both a heel and a baby face, including a British Heavyweight tile eliminator against Tony St. Clair, along with wins via disqualifications against Mal Kirk, Wild Angus & Haystacks.
Personally i would have liked to have seen Shirley continue his solo contests alongside the tag matches, perhaps 50/50, as the single bouts would have made him appear more vulnerable than his one man wrecking ball tag matches in the 1980s. There's no doubt that Shirley was the reason many came to the halls to watch wrestling, but following his bouts of illness he should have been allowed to retire. By the mid to late 1980's age and illness were taking there toll, Shirley looked an old man, and he made for uncomfortable viewing. He'd shrank in height, size and weight. Shirley had always looked bigger than the great Mal Kirk. By now he looked smaller and greatly aged.
Yes i think Shirley should have retired following his win over Bill Bromley & Giant Haystacks.
To answer the question: At the very latest, after the Mal Kirk tragedy. Whatever you think of Daddy, that incident completely broke the man.
Totally agree Howard. I never understood the animosity towards Big D. He was entitled to earn a living. Many a salesman makes money selling us things we don't really need. There was demand for Shirley and he supplied it. Even in my late teens mid 80's I loved a Big Daddy tag because the atmosphere was special.
In the main we're looking at this as wrestling purists and criticising the stretching of the believability to the nth degree. However, the fact remains that the children continued to enjoy Shirley's tag matches to the end, so in that respect he was right to continue.
Went on for too long or top of the bill for too long. I would certainly agree with the latter. The Americans have shown that the likes of Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair can live on their legacy long after their peak. I think the issue was more to do with promoting than Daddy himself. I think he could have added value to the bill up to the 90's if he was billed correctly as a bit of a comic sideshow. I think wrestling wasn't helped because too many giants were slain to easily at Daddy's feet.
He should have gone on further down the bill against the likes of Tiny Calahan and other non descript fatties in a more light hearted match. The heavyweight division could have continued billing credible heavyweights.
He should have hung up his boots by 1982/83 at the latest. He was limited and was labouring to get through matches, the popularity was there for him but Max didn't have the nous to use increase Shirley's top line via merchandise the most I ever saw were photos. It was a case of whipping the willing horse as Shirley had some very lean years financially and was probably worried about it happening again so he kept going long after he should have and as Max had him destroying everyone put in front of him they were painting themselves into a corner. Near the end he could barely climb the ring steps.
There is always the view that ITV Wrestling would have ended much earlier without him and he extended the careers of some very impressive wrestlers on the bill beneath because of this
He carried on because he could.Max told him so.Can't blame him really .
I first started watching wrestling in the summer of 1977 and the first time I saw Big Daddy was in a good hard bout against Rex Strong, which Daddy won by knock-out with an impressive double-elbow. The next bout I saw him in was against Colin Joynson, which Daddy won 2-1 with Joynson pinning Big Daddy after a flying tackle (the last time Daddy was pinned on TV, I believe). The next bout was against John Elijah, which I watched again recently on a DVD and this was a genuinely good bout, where Elijah actually threw Daddy across the ring a few times, but Daddy won 1-0 in the end. My point is that Big Daddy bouts were actually quite good in those days.
I agree with the original posting that Daddy maybe should have retired after the Haystacks bout in 1981. I think our memories of him would have been much fonder if he had done that. However, as leonard.frank mentioned in his posting above, wrestlers sometimes have to carry on as they still need to earn a living.
I think its easy to forget sometimes people (not just wrestlers) have no choice but to carry on as they still need to earn a living. I hated the Big Daddy circus and everything about it but many enjoyed it so I guess it had its place, its just a shame it bulldozed its way over every other aspect of wrestling and left no real room for the very wrestlers who could have kept the sport alive. Daddy was never the Superman he was made out to be, he was unfit, no real skill, no stamina, and no real personality apart from the manufactured one his family gave him. He was milked for all it was worth and it destroyed any credibility that the Grappling game had.
Well, he should certainly have given up before his health was impaired. I've just told Matey Dave that careers evolve and we have to appreciate a wrestler's contribution in the context of the stage of his career. Admittedly Shirley did stretch this generosity of spirit to an extreme.
When Shirley returned to the ring in 1972 he provided interest for a short time. We soon began to tire of those first and second round KOs. In the latter part of the 1970s, maybe into the 1980s I'm not sure, he still seemed pretty nimble for a man of his size and could work a match. The problem for Shirley wasn't Shirley, it was the way he was used. If he had been a top of the bill heavy who took his losses against the credible heavies of the time he could have carried on as long as his health permitted.