Wrestlers we've never heard of 1960+

The difficulty is that most of us are guided by You Tube.For example prior to January 1973 no one in the UK had heard of Frank Dhondt.In reality more than half a century later he would be completely forgotten if it were not for the fact that his January 1973 match versus Paul Mitchell appears on several You Tube channels and has thousands of views.

The real "not heard of"wrestlers appear on the bottom of bills from the last century and not one member of this forum can come up with any info on them!

The problem word in the title of this topic is WE. Which of us can speak for us all? I wish people would use less sloppy language when titling topics.

Anyway, speaking for me, myself, personally:

We talked about Fred Bentley some time back. He trained Bob Anthony who spoke highly of him. He's a few weeks older than Sam Betts which makes him the oldest known British wrestler alive.

Hi Ron

Biff Watson and Fred Bentley would go here for me.

Could he be Scandinavian or German and the printers misspelt as they often did what about Axel Anderson, There was a wrestler of that name in Minnesota in the early 1930's and a German actor from the 1960s and 1970s too. It's a possibility.

1987, and Alan Kilby is making a defence against Axle Anderson.

Does anyone know anything about Axle Anderson?

John Asley....photo on ebay

This one interests me as being on a JP bill. John Tempest. Never heard of him or seen him on any other bill.

Also entrusted with an early JP outing for Haystack:

I only went to a boxing bill at St. James once. Top of the bill was a Ginger Rawlings.

Could he have turned to wrestling, or just a coincidence?

A final update on the mystery wrestler from Yorkshire. Sadly, he lost his final fight earlier this year. Out of respect, I will continue to protect his privacy, but I will say he was well looked after in his final days and his legacy is still out there, on Youtube and in a few comments asking about him, and where he went in later life. Thanks to everyone who tried to help me identify him and rest well, RS.

TV Times for yesterday in 1971 has Al Hayes v a Pete Bruso (or Bruno) billed out of Portsmouth. Possibly a typo for Mr. Elrington?

Tell him we would love to see his matches( we might have already watched them) , but more important is that he knows we are interested in his achievements in the ring and out of the ring too.

Give him mine and no dou others from the forum our best wishes.

Just as a round-up for everyone who was interested in my mystery wrestler - I now know who he is and I was thrilled to discover him anew. He wrestled under a totally unrelated name and I would never have found him if it hadn't been for the kind friend showing us a picture. He, as I said, is very private and I will respect that but I really hope he will allow people in one day as he was a great wrestler and he has suffered a lot in the years since his hay-days. I would love to tell him how interested people are in him and how much people would want to help. The friend has shown him some of his old matches on Youtube and apparently his face lit up; he had no idea those matches were there. Also, some *bleep* apparently stole his championship belt many years ago!

Pete Phillips on today's Morecambe bill.

Ray Ronaldo was another today in a feature bout at Bournemouth.

Both JP bills.

could it have been from before Haystacks moved to Joint Promotions

If he's not deceased, he seems the best one to ask, and then share with us.

Could he have been George Burgess?

Sorry gillmojo, I too have drawn a blank. Any idea where he was from, you vaguely mention Yorkshire. It's a needle in a Giant Haystacks.

bkendo1 Are you ok? Are you trying to tell us something?

**_6

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Here's John Asley again, in France, still "British Champion", only this time, he is called Bob.........

Was George Hastings the name he used as a wrestler or his actual name, they can be two different things.

Hey everyone,

Brand new to the site (but not to wrestling) and I wonder if you can help. I am trying to track down a wrestler who I believe was called George Hastings who beat Giant Haystacks by DQ at some point back in the mists of time. May have been a Yorkshire lad? I just can't find him so if anyone can help I would be hugely grateful. Thank you :)

Manzarolli could be Mancelli I guess.

John Asley - well I think he is a French Wrestler who used a British gimmick, can't seem to find him anywhere else, not under that name.

SaxonWolf

3h

Do we know anything about him, Hack?

Well, I don't. I hadn't heard of him until you mentioned him. I found the photo in a photo magazine that I think has some connection with the French Reunion. Might be wrong about that, but definitely a French mag. What about this T. Manzarolli on your first poster. Could this be Tony Mancelli?

And here he is again (Karl Von Kramer on the bill as well)

Do we know anything about him, Hack?

Here he is

Another unknown to me, and he might not really be English, (just as Hans Streiger wasn't really German), and could be a local French lad pretending to be a Brit, but I have come across this name on a few French bills, John Asley?

Here he is on a bill headlined by Peter Maivia, which could date it at mid 60's.

There are quite a few wrestlers who would be in this category if it were not for the fact that in a very brief career they managed to appear on TV

Yes, agreed Anglo Italian. Though I am surprised how often we come across names on Joint bills; you'd think by now we would know all of them.

I mean that finding a name on a JP bill that we've never hear of will be, at this point, most unlikely. Therefore those finds have great value. Penny blacks.

As described, we will continue to spot hundreds of unknown names on independent bills, by their very nature.

I agree and disagree Anglo. As it's you I prefer the latter. I'm not sure what solidity means but would agree that with Joint Promotions there is a much greater chance that here was a wrestler with some training and aspirations; some independents would make use of a body available on a night, or a name that was convenient for the occasion. But I don't think we should limit this to Joint men. I've been surprised over the years how many unknown names (some independents) have turned out to have some significance, and just publicising names on the web means that family or friends searching the net could make a surprise discovery and get in touch. Remember, even Eric Turner became a discovery fifty odd years later.

Leaving this open to independents leaves hundreds of names that were dreamt up perhaps once only onsome of these bills.

Joint Promotions do give us some solidity here.

I reckon any name that we've never heard of on a JP bill is worth a prize.

Robin Logan yes, and what about Jim McCartney, Mel Cameron, Chris Democrats, Keith Brown, Slim Whitman, Pete Coleman and Trevor Mcdonald.

Another name on there: ROBIN Logan, coincidentally (or otherwise) billed from Bermondsey…..

Might well be Ron. Thanks.

Does not shed too much light but found him once.

Could he be this Young Sparks.

And if so is this him again , in all cases a Midlands operator.

On this Day 2nd July a 1970s poster from Main Mask with Johnny Sparks. Does anyone know him?

I saw Hamid Ali Gil a few times for the independents, a lean and fast 12ish stoner who I enjoyed, though I think Eddie was less than complimentary, and he knows more about wrestling than me!!!

I'll See if I've got him on Some Other Posters POWER!!

BIG Job!- So Hold The Phone!!

MM

I can't ever remember seeing him live or on TV. Has he turned up on any other posters.

Main Mask's poster today shows Hamed Gill in 1970. It's a year when many of us on here were avid aware fans.

True we slipped him into the A-Z but we know nothing about him.

Does anyone have any info?

I saw a Great Scott a couple of times. Not as big as this fella but it was about 15 years earlier.

If i may throw a couple of names into the mix who appeared on TV, disappeared and are not in the A-Z: Roy Scott and Tommy “The Hammer” Harmon?

Main Mask asks about Pete Halverson. Could well be Phil Halverson, from Durham, also worked as Billy McKenzie. He worked mostly for the opposition but did do some work for Joint in the 1970s.

So who was RED MASK????????????????????????????????

Ernie Robertson was a heavyweight from Scotland, likely Leith, worked late 1940s early 1950s.. Worked mostly in Dundee and Edinburgh. Opponents included Jack Atherton, Norman Walsh, Dennis Mitchell and Wally Strang.

John Strang I vaguely remember a connection with Jack Pye but nothing definite.

Not much on Ken Bowers otherthan being around the north 1961-2 working for Wryton and Morrell. Also came across Al Bowers.

Bernard Bradford made it to the back page of The Wrestler. Occasional matches for Morrell 1965-8. There was a Bernard Bradford bodybuilder, I wonder if that was him.

And here's another from Ron's offering today where seemingly Joint Promotions promoter William Little slips in fairly local boy Mike Willies.

Who on earth was he?

Could all have been an in-joke name if Willies meant he was William's boy and dad set the whole show up so that wrestling nut Junior could see some action alongside big names.

All conjecture. All possible.

Dusty Miller answered earlier.

John Powers we can add to the list.

Here's Another Wrestler-Unknown to Me-Who Makes it to Supporting Bout

against The MAD AXEMAN...at MARINA OPEN AIR THEATRE-GT. YARMOUTH!

JOHN POWERS??

MAIN MASK

Eric Turner

I thought I had found him............................in The Woolpack,

Then I realised it was Alan Turner!

Pete and Ginger could be the same, but it looks unlikely. Ginger I find 1935-7 and again in 1944. Pete I find 1941 - 1954. Pete's opponents are generally heavier than Ginger's. Peter I find only billed from Yorkshire (Dewsbury or Huddersfield), Ginger is billed from Deptford, Manchester and Scotland.

I suggested 1962 as a start period.

1960 was also mentioned.

Ok, 1960, but not before. No.

In fact, I shall now amend the topic title accordingly.

Today Main Mask's Rochester programme includes:

Navarro Moyans

Memo Diaz

in the treble main event.

Wholly new to me.

Is there any possible links between Ginger and Peter Rawlings, weight, location, promoter, timelines, links to the Rawlings wrestling family.

This topic has been useful and will be a loss if it sinks. A summary. We have collectively made inroads with:

Stud Baines

Paul Darton

Jim Hipkiss

Walter McCrae

Jim Noice

Ginger Rawlings

Red Mask

Marcus Reid

Resistor

Peter Stanley

Dough Wrey

We are currently searching for:

Alan Allen – Bayswater

Bob Arniston – 1940s

Ken Bowers

Bernard Bradford

Paddy John Faye – Ireland

Flying Bullet

Roy Fryer

George Gully – Bradford

Dave King – Dundee

Dusty Miller

Jerry Moriarty

Pete Rawlings – Huddersfield

Red Ace

Charlie Reeder – Shoreditch 1959

Sonny Roberts – London 60s

Ernie Robertson – Edinburgh

Bill Rogston – York 1962

Phil Rowe – south Africa?

Cannonball Sheppard – Doncaster (is this Bert Craddock?)

Pat Stapleton – Ireland, uk 1965

John Strang – Thornbury

Ken Teeley

Roy Webster – Pendlebury

Anglo Italian, we are awaiting your verdict on whether to limit to a time period.

A good opponent for Eric Turner?

Since his tag match at St Bart's was a rematch, that doubles his appearances there.

Here's the good Doctor ....

Paul Dart , who was a practising doctor at Northwick Park Hospital in Wembley. Wrestled as Flower Child, though I can only find two matches, this one and Liverpool Stadium against Iggy Borg in 1979.

I guess he was a better doctor than wrestler.

Flower Child’s ring attire consisted of a kaftan and flower coloured tights. A villain in the ring (hopefully better behaved in the hospital) he would blow kisses to the audience who would reciprocate with insults and jeering.

The Ost 4h

This is my list, mostly 50s and 60s but some later ones. I had a look through the A-Z before posting and removed some names that are in there, apologies if i've missed any others:

Walter McCrae is listed in the A-Z as McRae. I'll check and see which is the correct spelling.

Some of the others have been mentioned before but we obviously didn't get far or they would be in the A-Z. I think Les Prest mentioned Bernard Bradford. Peter Stanley we concluded was Wonder Boy.

Sounds like a one off, well just sounds off. I have a Red Mask in 1979 and 1981, losing to Dennison and Patton.

In for a penny, in for a pound, I‘ll try one more time to see if anyone can help with the following ‘unknown’ masked wrestler.

Announced as RED MASK. Which I thought should have been THE RED MASK. Venue, The Fairfield Halls, circa 1974-75.

Opponent, Ray Steele. Referee Joe D’Orazio.

Red Mask, dragged his left foot (I think it was his left) along the canvas, giving the impression he had a club foot. He dressed in all red.

Mask was absolutely the worst wrestler I ever saw in the U.K. In fact if it hadn’t of been for the fact that when Steele, angered by the lack of any aggression or clue as to what to do, tried to vent his spleen by smacking the masked man with a forearm smash, Mask would fall to the canvas quickly to avoid the blow, making med think he at the very least knew what was coming. The evasionary tactic only made Steele more frustrated and angry. Steele chased Mask around the ring for about three rounds before Joe talked to Steele during the drinks break, resulting in Steele flying out of his corner just as the bell rang for the start of the fourth round and hitting Red with a head-butt that Mask stayed down for. To add injury to insult, Joe then pushed with his feet, the hooded wrestling fraud under the ropes and out of the ring, with a look of disdain on his face,

Later I talked to one of the seconds, who said Red Mask had challenged Big Daddy from the audience at the recent Royal Albert Hall card. That was all he knew about him.

So, can anyone shed any light on RED MASK?

Yes I would agree with Anglo Italian. This is in danger of becoming a long list which has little value unless there are enough of usable and willing to contribute.

None of us have memories of the 1930s or 1940s, few memories of the 1950s. Only a handful of us are interested into delving into the 1930s. I enjoyed looking at the names Ron put forward but there are hundreds of 1930s wrestlers, not many have access to the records, so participation is limited.

We have had valuable memories from 1960 onwards, so I would put a start date at 1960.

Some of us have an interest or even memories of prior to that year, and we should be encouraged to start our own separate topics to seek information on those wrestlers.

A quick edit: We could start a parallel Mystery Wrestlers of the 1930s,40s,50s topic along the same lines. It would sink or swim. I'd expect the 1960s plus thread to swim.

And yes, I'm thinking Yorkshireman Derek Baines was our Stud. They all became Dr Death one day.

This is my list, mostly 50s and 60s but some later ones. I had a look through the A-Z before posting and removed some names that are in there, apologies if i've missed any others: George Gully – Bradford

Bernard Bradford

Alan Allen – Bayswater

Walter McCrae - Newcastle - IN A-Z

Ernie Robertson – Edinburgh

John Strang – Thornbury

Pete Rawlings – Huddersfield

Paddy John Faye – Ireland

Roy Webster – Pendlebury

Roy Fryer

Ken Bowers

Cannonball Sheppard – Doncaster (is this Bert Craddock?)

Dave King – Dundee

Phil Rowe – south Africa?

Bill Rogston – York 1962

Charlie Reeder – Shoreditch 1959

Peter Stanley – Watford is this the Wonder Boy? YES

Jerry Moriarty

Pat Stapleton – Ireland, uk 1965

Ken Teeley

Dough Wrey – Isle of Wight

Bob Arniston – 1940s

Sonny Roberts – London 60s

Paul Darton - St Bartholomew's Hospital

Stud Baines was reintroduced by Max ,he'd earlier had try outs with Morrel was billed from Salford early on hence my interest he was a Yorkshire man and had been a Crabtree routine Unmasker under the bonnet.

So this is Stud Baines? And he was also a Dr Death? Well, there were plenty, but at least one who probably was under the bonnet on a lot of those late seventies programmes we pour scorn on. Greatr delving, Hack.

Moving on, I think this thread and list need a rule. Reading Ron's Chelsea bills, it is clear that there will be stacks of old-timers we have never heard of and putting them on any list is rather pointless. It would dilute the interest.

The object here is to find wrestlers who slipped through our collective awareness, especially on JP bills.

So where to start? We always say 1952, but it's too early in this context.

Let's say 1962. (Open to protests ☺)

The Raggalds Pub Murder

The Raggalds pub which resides in the Queensbury district of Bradford, was the scene of a bloody murder and woundings by two masked assailants, that left one man dead, and two others injured. It all began on April 24th 1995, when two masked men burst into the pub with guns and shot dead Michael Briggs, from Abbey Park, Illingworth, Halifax. The pub landlord, David Baines, a former professional wrestler known as "Dr Death" was wounded, along with customer John Paisley.

http://wolfiewiseguy.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-raggalds-pub-murder.html

"Eric Turner - the definitive mystery man or figment of Hack's imagination?"

Well, thanks for mention of the glorious Eric. I did consider listing him but decided against it. But I could take offence at your comment Anglo if I was that way inclined.

I ask everyone I meet. No one has heard of him.

One day he will turn up....one day...sob, sob.

(If anyone would like a run down of the Eric Turner saga, which goes back to around 2005, I advise against it).

Dusty Miller, Main Mask. Absolutely, yes. I was at that show!!! He was around for a while. Can't remember much but he was good.

Never saw the Resistor but he was certainly a name. Ah yes, Ted Heath, thanks.

Without being too snobby, certainly something needs to be said about Hack's inference. An unknown name on a Joiunt Promotions bill, where the wrestler would probably have had a series of bookings, carries certain weight. Makes us wonder also if it was a well-known wrestler going under another name.

The Independants, whilst fun and also at times professional, do leave the door wide open to purely one-off nonsenses.

Having said all that and without further ado, here's a list of roughly JP unknowns from above:

Stud Baines (Hack threatens detail)

Red Ace

Flying Bullet

Ginger Rawlings

Jim Hipkiss - though we have scratchings

Eric Turner - the definitive mystery man or figment of Hack's imagination?

There have been a few in the On This Day threads but they come and go and whoosh into the forgetfulness ....

Thanks to all who have contributed names so far.

The name Jim Hipkiss seemed familar. He cropped up with the tribute to Otani. I hadn't realised he'd done so much wrestling and looks worthy of further investigation.

1936 Dec 6th BIRMINGHAM

A German wrestling team met a Birmingham team under Ju-Jitsu rules. There was also an exhibition wrestling match between Jim Hipkiss and M.Otani, who was described as “The Japanese wonder wrestler.”

This topic started with Stud Baines and Red Ace. So many more names flying in they've been forgotten, which is a danger.

I'm sure someone out there must have seen Stud Baines. He was talked about years ago Anglo. He was a bit after our time started late 1970s and seemed busyish for four or five years mainly in the north. If I'm right the conclusion was that he was in the wrestlers who never seemed to win category.

Red Ace I've no idea.

Resistor was here from August to November 1978. On a trip back home it was Ted Heath.

It's deja vu, all over again! Several years ago I posted a list of names I had never heard of and was shot down with a reply along the lines of 'wrestlers/promoters make up names all the time' end of !