Wrestling Finances

Don't twist things, Hack.

I didn't write regardless of days worked. I said they each had an agreement to work whatever was stipulated, probably 20 to 26 evenings a month. And their agreement/contract was paid accordingly.

You're worse than McManus at bending the rules.

Yes we know about the booking sheets, they brought order and discipline to Joint Promotions that was missing from the independents.

But it's a huge jump to then claim they were paid on a monthly salary regardless of days worked.

Torontos, Baron, Logan, Czeslaw and the rest - these wrestlers worked for Dale Martin for decades, with occasional days out. I've seen their booking sheets. They couldn't be reinventing the wheel every month.

How they were paid is another matter. I could imagine they issued invoices, absolving the promoter of any tax obligation.

Same goes for the refs and mcs.

Thanks for your comment re expenses bKendo1. 1983 was selected for one reason only, i.e. it's the only one I have, and I thought it might be of interest as the only factual comment to try and answer the question. Unlike .....😀

I'll give you a very detailed answer Anglo when you submit. You stated Dales regulars were ion monthly salaries.

Smoke and mirrors Anglo ?

Confused, me? You're confusing me with someone else!

Now then, you were an occasional for Dale Martins - though I do have a poster of you as an exotic northern bill-topper in Croydon - and you were probably paid per bout.

But Dale Martin had plenty of shows every night and couldn't be counting out the LSD for wrestlers who only worked for them. The guys wanted a regular wage and their names went down first in the planning. They were trusties. They had guaranteed work all year round. With occasional farm-outs to the north. (Did Robby Baron ever go north?)

Tell us what you mean by retainer payment and we can see if we have common ground. I don't know, but I don't imagine any single non-Southern promoter ran enough shows to be able to promise full-time work to 20 or more wrestlers. Dale Martin could - and they needed to. The commitment was two-way. Look around Dale Martin bills around, say, 1971, and a core of wrestlers are always there: those I mentioned + Kirkwood, Bruno, Kowalski, Myers, Iron Jaw, Syd, Artful Dodgers, Kwango, Trood, Hurst etc.

Matchmaking would have been a nightmare if you had to contact each wrestler to ask if they were available for each individual night.

The farm-outs are interesting in themselves. I always imagined that when they met in Leeds every fortnight the conversation went something like:

Mick: "I'll give you Torontos for 16/17and 18 Nov."

Norman: "Ok, and I'll give you McMichael those same days."

Mick: "You pay McMichael and I'll pay Billy."

Norman: "Agreed."

Had to be something like this, the payroll department would have been gigantic and confused otherwise. Small promoters like Pallo generously bunged "an extra fiver" for a good show. But Dale Martin there was probably never any exchange of cash in the changing rooms.

That brings us back to the question of: did anyone at all in the wrestling business ever pay tax?

1983 would have seen a much higher proportion of losing venues.dont forget the likes of Battersea fixed payment bills it was noted that the fayre offered wasn't the best.Also to be considered were higher hiring costs on bigger venues. Re monthly pay I'm interested in Anglos comments I wonder if he's confused by retainer payments because they were in operation.

It would be interesting to know who was topping the bills and try to gauge whether that had any effect on the attendance. But then again were the losing venues on rainy night ?

This is the first time I've heard of monthly salary payments for wrestlers, I'd be interested to hear from someone in the business whether it existed.

I think Powerlock is right that there was subsidy of halls in smaller towns by the bigger venues.

I have in front of me the Dale Martin balance sheet for the four weeks 25th November t0 22nd December 1983.

54 shows were promoted.

Excluding tv shows (which accrued money from ITV) here are some of the statistics.

35 shows made a profit, 19 made a loss.

Three shows with the biggest profit:

1. Lichfield on 21st Dec: £358 profit

2. Ashington on 3rd Dec: £342 profit

3. Croydon on 20th Dec: £331 profit

Three shows with the biggest loss:

1. Oxford on 15th Dec: £439 loss

2. Portsmouth on 7th Dec: £321loss

2. Catford on 12th Dec: £233 loss

For the four week period 25th November t0 22nd December 1983 of £4,481

I have been looking quite a lot at venue capacity and am coming to the conclusion that if you only got a gate of 300 then things were really tight. Not impossible but for sure , a headache.

At the extreme end of things I do remember at Pontins I often saw something like Clean v Dirty and Cowboy against Indian then they would tag after the interval. Thus 4 wrestlers and 3 bouts. MC and Ref were Bluecoats. Two holiday camps in one day as well.

I also went to a lot of Jack Cassidy shows and would estimate 300 maybe a little more at them. A donation to charity and yet the wrestlers speak well of the wage they got from Jack.

Presumably it also depended to an extent on where you were on the Bill. Also when I first qualified as a solicitor in the suburbs my salary was £14 for a six and a half day week so say three bouts a night in the Manchester clubs was very good pocket money.

The likes of Czeslaw, Torontos, Baron, Barnes, Elijah were on monthly salaries and just had to do their 20 or 25 bookings, whatever was agreed. The talk has always been of bonuses for tv and Albert Hall appearances, but I don't know how that worked, and in any case, they are exceptions.

I think it depended greatly on venue capacity, I wonder if the larger venue takings underwrote smaller venues to an extent . When your looking at a 4000 capacity venue having four bouts and then 1000 capacity venue also having four bouts the profit margin will be considerably at the bigger venue compared to the smaller venue. Were the wrestlers less for a smaller venue or was it a standard fee.