What if it was a sport? How would they be rated then? Obviously, it is not a genuine competition but it was booked to create the perception that it was. There were winners and losers. I would say the elites are de Relwyskow Jr., Joe Reid, Norman Morrell, George Kidd would be #1, Jim Breaks, Johnny Saint, Harold Angus. Next tier would be Johnny Stead, Little Larry, Melwyn Riss, Steve Grey, Alan Miquet, Jon Cortez, Zoltan and Bobby Ryan I wish I could judge them as performers but I have only seen those on YouTube so I have to go by the limited old newspaper reports and the flawed title histories.

I think I have found it used interchangeably with "Spring Body Throw" so I am pretty sure it is a bridging suplex. I've also seen "overhead folding press" which I also think is a bridging suplex and, as Anglo points out, is not a physical impossibility like an "overhead shoulder press" would be.

I apologize. I was using the image to demonstrate how the newspapers described holds without using the common name. That is not an image of the overhead shoulder press.

Sometimes you luck out and get a picture. The paper called this a "muscle rending hold" but it is clearly a surfboard.

Oh, is this a mystery others, as well?

Does anyone know what the "SUMATRA DEATH HOLD" actually was? Was it a nervehold? I've also read newspaper clippings about his "karate chops." Was he a power wrestler who used the Asian stereotypes of chops/nerveholds? Thanks!

Oh, I definitely am not looking for a scientific formula. The main site has a ranked list of wrestlers from the 30's and masked wrestlers. So I have a sense of who the most knowledgeable British wrestling historians think are the best masked men by ranking. I was hoping to get a similar list from an overall perspective. When the Wrestling Classics historians did their "100 greatest..." the top lucha libre historian, Jose Fernandez publicly posted his list and fully half of it consisted of luchadores. This gave me a list of wrestlers to research and a certain perspective on how important they are to the history of pro wrestling in Mexico. I guess I was seeking something similar out of this thread. And I have it minus the rankings.

What if we narrowed the criteria to box office appeal domestically? I realize there are still adjustments to make for different eras but it's probably easier to do?

No, I truly didn't! :-) But I'm glad I did.

A combination of those and influence.

I'd be thrilled to have more folks give their input. The thread is open so- to anyone reading this - please give your list. It isn't going to serve any purpose but fun and to make known to the ignorant the talented athletes and performers who deserve to be remembered and learned about. The order would never be definitive. It's the start of the conversation not the finish.

"Futile and out of the question" is the type of response that I feared. I was just aiming for a bit of fun and perspective.

1 Bert Assirati 2 Jim Breaks 3 Les Kellett 4 Jackie Pallo 5 Gwyn Davies 6 George Kidd 7 Douglas Clark 8 Dave Armstrong 9 Billy Riley 10 Alan Garfield 11 Bert Royal 12 Billy Howes 13 Billy Robinson 14 Jack Pye 15 Johnny Saint 16 Billy Joyce 17 Count Bartelli 18 Albert Wall 19 George Clark 20 Mick McManus 21 Adrian Street 22 Eric Taylor 23 Kendo Nagasaki 24 Norman Walsh 25 Sandy Orford 26 Jack Dale 27 Dave Finlay 28 John Naylor 29 Mike Marino 30 The Ghoul 31 Mark Rocco 32 Anaconda 33 Bruno Elrington 34 Mitchell Gill 35 Steve Veidor 36 Geoff Portz 37 Harold Angus 38 Jack Alker 39 George Gregory 40 Dark Owl 41 Joe Reid 42 Wayne Bridges 43 Bill Benny 44 Bobby Barnes 45 Farmer's Boy 46 Mitzi Mueller 47 Jack Dempsey 48 Jon Cortez 49 Wild Ian Campbell 50 Tommy Mann

I have really hit the lottery with this thread. The lists are 1988 and earlier and limited to what happened in Great Britain and Ireland which differs from my list but is actually far more useful to my ends. I am going to combine the lists made by Anglo, Ron and Historyo just for my own entertainment and will post it. First place gets 50 points, 50th gets 1 point and so on. Just to clarify, the list at Wrestling Classics was voted on by an international panel and not just Americans.

I realize they are incredibly outdated but, does anyone have Charles Mascall's ratings?

Dave Morgan

When the historians at the Wrestling Classics board did a "100 Greatest" list only three British wrestlers received votes. Billy Robinson, Dynamite Kid and Big Daddy. I have been a fan of this site and have been reviewing it for years and it seems there is a wide gap in knowledge and appreciate of British wrestlers (at least by those who voted in the other list). I wanted to get a sense of the perception from British wrestling historians. I thank you all for indulging me. If there is any interest in doing a more formal and comprehensive list, I'd be happy to do the grunt work. I must state my goal is to increase awareness and I know as an American in his 30's a list like this at least gives me a starting point on who the most important wrestlers are to learn about.

Thank you for sharing your list. I thought Dr Death was Australian....?

Thank you for sharing your list. This is exactly what I was looking for. A whole bunch of names I need to educate myself on.

Forgive my ignorance on those not born in the defined areas. It appears from the responses that I gave more credit to being a star internationally than others might.