Hi Hack, Sorry to come back on this vexed question of the date of that photo. (the one with the JP champions.)
Whilst looking for information on a different post, I came across the result from a Newcastle bill when Norman Walsh beat Tony Mancelli 2-1 to retain the British Cruiserweight title.
The date was 8/5/1954.
That was about the last ,sort of period ,that I saw Norman looking that light.
I cannot understand how that Champions photo was taken in 1960's.
I know that the title situation bears your theory out, but unless Norman lost a pile of weight for that photo, and then piled it on again before the photo produced by Ost for late 50's early 60's I still have my doubts.
Well as the only one, I am not even in a minority .
O.k. I concede. I still find it hard to believe the dates, but better brains than mine ,so end of this saga.
Thanks to all who contributed.
It appears he is tightening his stomach and extending his lats in the group photo.
My own feeling is not a massive difference. I think in the group photo he is posing more , pulling in the stomach a bit , expelling a bit of air to keep it tight.
The other photo much more of a close up so not easy to judge.
I don't see a massive transformation in size.
Comparisons. Both photos repeated. have a look, what do you think, in 11 months ?
Hi Ost. Facially yes, but look at the difference in body size and weight around the waist.
Just to note, Mel Riss' belt is slightly different than the others.
Thank You MM.
Going back, if the belt presentation photo was May 1960 and the very beefy Norman photo was April 1961, I don't think that both dates could be right.
Could you put that much weight on in 11 months/ What do others think please ?
Hello BERNARD!
Below Please find Some Evidence in answer to your Queries:-
2 Original Programmes for My Beloved KINGS HALL-BELLE VUE-As you will Note
Dated for APRIL and JUNE 1961!-I Provide BOTH The Covers and DATED Bouts
Pages!
Regarding the Date of The Champions Photo?!
This INCLUDES MELWYN RISS as the BRITISH LIGHTWEIGHT Champion!-So
it MUST have been Taken AFTER he Won This Title!-He does NOT Appear on Any
of the Recently Posted Bills!- Off the Top of My Head-I'm Pretty Sure he got it in
1960! Can RON 'Pinpoint' when??
As for the NORMAN WALSH Photo-it's on the Front Cover of My BELLE VUE
Programme Dated APRIL 1ST 1961!
Hope This All Helps you Sir?!
MAIN MASK
That photo must be between 1959 and 1965. In May 2020 Main Mask said it was on the cover of one of his Belle Vue programmes.
https://heritagedocs.wixsite.com/talkwrestling/forum/memories-of-the-old-days/norman-walsh-mini-special-for-bernard
O.k. folks, I give in.
1960 it was.
Norman must have lost a lot of weight.
well done all.
Now can anyone tell me the year that photo of Norman was taken please? (that I re-posted on 4th July 2024 )
Great find Ost.
I believe this to be a photo of that televised presentation:
We can see Norman Morrell in the lower right corner.
I agree with Hack May 1960 , also evidence on this bill here. "Television Parade of Wrestling Champions"
Back to your original question Bert, the taking of the champions photo. Best bet is a tv show on 7th May, 1960, when all the champions were presented with their belts.
Come on people. I need help here. Can anyone put a date on this photo of Norman Walsh please? Someone must have posted it on this forum a while ago. No follow up?
Even a date for this one ? Thanks.
Regarding the photo of the champions , thought to be 1961, please does anyone have a photo of Norman Walsh taken in the early 1960's? I think that I have seen a couple but would not know where to find them.
Thank you.
can we FINALLY get a normal pic of ERNIE BALDWIN with his LORD MOUNT EVANS BELT, please! or at least try to...
It's a great photo anyway. Some of the boys are clearly not in the first flush of youth but all look like they might be genuine professional athletes. The suits in the back row look like reputable sports admininstrators and as a publicity shot it ticks all the right boxes. I was impressed at the time - and I still am now.
A reminder that this is the photo Bernard referred to, a line up of Mountevans champions.
The best guess of members was 1961.
It would have been a rarity for all the champions to have been assembled. So I am proposing this occasion,
This advert refers to a Television Parade of Wrestling Champions, which would make the photo April 1960
Possibly Ost, but I saw Eric Taylor in the late fifties, and I think that he was wearing that type of boot then. I seem to remember that he was the first that I saw with that pattern.
Also that's a lot of weight to shed so quickly, then go back up again, by Walsh. However I 'll submit because the weight of evidence is against me.
I'd say 1961 is the right date. This is from the February 1962 issue of The Wrestler (so written in late 1961). Notice it says "newly created" and that Taylor is wearing the same boots as those in 'that' photo:
Maybe Norman Walsh got a heads up that he was being called in for official photos and did some work to get in shape.
Bernard, Euro Cruiserweight and World Jr Hwt both were Relwyskow/Green Titles. I don't know much about British Cruiserweight Title (heard that Les Kellet held it before he won the Euro Cruiserweight). I don't know how many original Mount Evans Belts were produced in 1950. Yes, Busfield, Colbeck and Baldwin got theirs. I don't know whom else had it.
Hi Ruslan, are you sure that we are talking about the JP title when we say Mancelli was Cruiserweight Champion?
Regarding the photo, I am only going on Norman Walsh's physique.
I say that Norman was not that shape or weight in the 60's.
Everything else points to Hack's version of the photo being taken in the 60's.
But then again look at The Ost's photo of Norman on the other thread.
Bernard, thanks. We need The Ost here, May 8th 1954 Mancelli Cruiserweight Champion and lost title back to Walsh? Good question. There are rumors that he was British Hwt Champion (for at least a month) in 1954.
Bernard, when do you think The Champions photo was taken? Just remind you the belts Morell presented his men on that photo did not exist in the 50s.
There's info that Mancelli won heavyweight title in London and lost it back to Baldwin a month later.
May be August 5 1954, Wimbledon London? Does anyone have a programme/poster of that event? wrestling-titles/wikipedia lists that date as a title change (but there is no credible evidences to support it), and in Ray’s result file it does have Mancelli b Baldwin. No mention of the British Hwt itle though, just regular match. In 1954 London more likely it was Dale/Martin. There was another match for the two, on September 9th, 1954 at Wimbledon. No result though.
I'm at a loss Bernard. We know when the photo was used in the programme. But then it could have been an old photo. But the title line up and the style of belts does point to 1961. Everything in wrestling is true until it's not true Bernard.