Who was the best drawing wrestler ever,whether British or Overseas?

If we’re talking the mid-sixties, Billy Two Rivers and Rikki Starr could pack the Morecambe Winter Gardens to the doors.

If 1930s was all-in wrestling boom in Britain, who was the biggest draw of that time-period? Any ideas on this matter would be highly appreciated.

In my time Pallo and Kellett. McManus was popular but we never saw him in Northampton. Later it had to be Kendo. Thankfully i was long gone by the Daddy era.

I have to nominate Mick McManus as the biggest draw in the early to mid 1960's. Afterwards I think fans became tired of his predictability. I agree with Riki Starr, who was an original "one off" and a natural crowd pleaser. Also Doctor Death deserves all the plaudits as he achieved his notoriety without the benefit of television coverage- just excellent marketing. Although I wonder how the good Doctor would have fared against the likes of George Gordienko, the best wrestler I ever saw.

Sorry about this folks, my keyboard keeps missing letters, and no haven't been drinking.

Have to keep going back to put letters in.

Hi Ron. I'm glad to see at least one oracle coming round to the truth ! It's a pity more people wer not able to see Jack Pye ,live or even on video etc.

He was the one who taught the others about heat!

Thanks MM.

Very resourceful so a shame fnot to share with everyone, I hope you will allow:

Wrestling has a tradition of not being original ☺☺☺ So I think we should assume this is where the wrestler lifted his name from. He was from Hollywood, after all!

I do like to come back to my awe of the visionary and clear thinking of the promoters and wrestlers years ago. We have, in this thread, mentioned a few wrestlers whose effeminite antics straddled the legalisation of homosexuality. Wrestling was bang on the money at all times, in every contentious respect. Doctor Adolf Kaiser in the early sixties appealed to those with WW2 fresh in their minds. The "pooftah" brigade who absolutely invited every kind of, what we would call now, homophobic reaction. And of course the black and brown (I believe I'm not allowed to say coloured even though my mother brought me up respectfully to use that description) wrestlers who were generally loved. Again, the promoters realised that a villain could cause undesired comments. And then of course when the time was right, with racism becoming a mainstream issue, they dropped in the Caribbean Sunshine Boys. The only driving force through all this was business and making money, through customer satisfaction, ie identifying what the people wanted at specific points in time.

Romeo uses the words Best Ever. I never saw him but being a researcher of newspapers there is no doubt in my mind that it was JACK PYE.

Also backed up by every Mancunian over 80 that went to wrestling that I ever met and some then add Bill Benny. We are talking of a full house twice a week at Kings Hall

I think we're about equal on this one ANGLO-between the Good DOCTOR and RICKI- all your points

are valid-plus KING'S HALL BELLE VUE was an almost 7000 saucer-like seater arena-not just used

for Wrestling-Circus etc.-so for STARR to go along way towards filling this Iconic Hall was also no mean feat either! Your ? about the Origin of the 'Hooded Terror's Ring Name is VERY Interesting indeed!!

By way of answer-I'm going to offer my own theory on this which I've harboured for a long time:-

In the late 1950's there was an American Horror Comic Title which was really popular in this Genre

Yes-you've guessed already-'Doctor Death'!! I feel sure LINCOLN would have been aware of this and

hey presto-there was his new Ring Persona!! I'm sending over to HACK some examples of the Comic

and would be interested in what you think on this ANGLO?

Also can I take this opportunity to say to you directly-you and HACK have done a Fantastic Job in

creating and maintaining HERITAGE as a Vehicle for Wrestling Enthusiasts with great Memories

and Contributions from very knowledgeable Members!!Wrestling in this Country was a big part of my

Leisure Life-and it's wonderful that we can keep these Super Sporting Times still fresh now as if we

were off to the Royal Albert Hall tomorrow to see Top Class Wrestling!!

MAIN MASK

Main Mask

I think your comment about Geoff Portz moves way off what Romeo wants from us.

But your comment about Doctor Death is well made and convinces me that he is equal if not more important than Starr in this context.

Just edging slightly off topic: this wonderful name, Doctor Death. Was it original to our man? Or was it borrowed from another wrestler (like Johnny Kwango and Masambula) or from popular culture (like The Wild Man of Borneo)?

For me as a teenager in the late 60s,at Middlesbrough town hall the two men to pack the place was Ski Hi Lee and would you believe my hero Klondike Bill. And even when Norman Morrell started putting shows on with names like Pallo and Nagasaki the hall wasn't packed anymore to capacity than the opposition lads. Regards Les 💪

The Great Togo was a pretty big draw pre 1964 but when he transmogrophied into Oddjob you could guarantee full houses.

DOCTOR DEATH-the Original of course-didn't need T.V.-He was filling GRANADA Leisure Centres

with crowds of up to 3000-now THAT'S Pulling Power!!-Did it for years too!!

MAIN MASK

But the question is "Who Was the Biggest Draw?" Nothing to do with who we enjoyed or thought value for money.

I said McManus and Pallo. Starr seems as good a suggestion. Jack Pye may be another. A big star even before tv. Assirati does not seem to have been a draw.

Hi ANGLO-not sure MIKE would agree about BERT!! I know what you mean about STARR'S move

but PORTZ'S Aeroplane Spin was just as good in my book and I even saw KENDO execute this

move more than once!! I do agree about RICKI'S Curiosity Value though!-Really different!

What you say about the 'pooftah' aspect carried on well into the '70's didn't it? I was immediately

reminded of the KENDO vs. DADDY one round Bout in Sept. 1975-where you can very clearly hear

a Kid in the Crowd regaling KENDO and GEORGE with this sort of Abuse for at least a minute!!

This perception didn't harm STREET either-he just actively MILKED it!!

MAIN MASK

As I read through Romeo's opening post I instantly had Ricki Starr in mind and I then saw that Romeo proposed him, too.

I don't think the question asks us what we thought of the wrestlers, but just who actually was the biggest draw.

Yes, Starr's prancing around the ring soon became laboured but at that time he really was something. There was great curiosity in the pre-1968 banned homosexuality days. I'm not saying Starr was gay, but casual parlance made quick jumps from male ballet dancer to pooftah. And all banned.

So in some ways, Starr's show was full of Carry-On innuendo.

And then there was the fact, as Kent told us about so many villains and comics, that he really could wrestle. And in Starr's case and with his spectacular aeropolane spin, we all saw it was true.

So I agree with several above that Starr's curiosity value made him the biggest draw of all.

I don't remember the fifties, but am always amazed, on the contrary, that the most fearsome wrestler, Assirati, seemed not to have been a big draw at all.

Kendo used to give tremendous value for money and whip the crowd into a frenzy.

Rikki Starr peaked in this country on his 1960s tours he did sell out around the country. McManus very rarely worked Newcastle but evidently sold well in the southern area. Pallo like Nagasaki worked everywhere as did Adrian Street and the Royals and all drew well. Les Kellett peaked box office wise in his late 50s. Very few consistently drew throughout their career either being phased down by promoters, relocating, working less dates, some going on too long and fans losing interest. It may be better comparing career peaks and the time they maintained it

PALLO was O.K.-HACK-but never one of MY Favourites really-He was good at Audience Inter-Action

but I wouldn't go out of my way to see him-but if Wrestlers I appreciated more were on the same Bill

then fine!! However I DID go out of my way to see HELL'S ANGELS-especially against the ROYALS-

saw these 2 Top Teams once at PARR HALL WARRINGTON in a really great match-the ANGELS

looked Superbly Tanned and in tip-top condition-by a sheer fluke the FAULKNERS managed to get

a very dubious Win!-I was pretty miffed-but NOT as annoyed as when the Combination of

LES KELLETT and MIKE MARINO beat the ANGELS 2-0 by two very 'lucky' scores at SHEFFIELD!!

MAIN MASK

To add to my previous post which I worded badly. Which wrestler sold the hall out every time they appeared and did it constantly and consistently throughout their career?